NWK Reviews Chris Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea (awful)

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cero2k
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Re: NWK Reviews Chris Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea (awful)

Post by cero2k » Jan 7th, '19, 12:16

Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 7th, '19, 10:41
I don't understand how suspension of disbelief can go so far as to allow two similar things that happen in the same context to not be treated the same.

Suspension of disbelief is for buy-in to the goings-on of the situation: Why the moves are not what you would see in a shoot fight, or why the cops aren't called or the commission doesn't shut things down after some sort of heinous assault. You can also extend this to things like LU/CHIKARA-type worlds magic exists, but I'd put buying into the premise in a different category. Suspension of disbelief should not be used to explain away contradictions.
it's not explaining contradictions, it's explaining that a set of wrestlers could be in two different storylines at the same time, especially when it happens on a match that is not booked/promoted/sanctioned by any given promotion

at this point i don't even know how to explain it anymore, it's just common sense to me that this match we're talking about had nothing to do with NJPW/ROH stories, it's a one off match for the sake of entertaining the fans and give them someone one of a kind for making the expense. just like the Impact vs ROH match was. We got to see it because it was the best match of the cruise and Jericho is trying to sell this year's cruise.
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Re: NWK Reviews Chris Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea (awful)

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 7th, '19, 12:53

cero2k wrote: Jan 7th, '19, 12:16
Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 7th, '19, 10:41
I don't understand how suspension of disbelief can go so far as to allow two similar things that happen in the same context to not be treated the same.

Suspension of disbelief is for buy-in to the goings-on of the situation: Why the moves are not what you would see in a shoot fight, or why the cops aren't called or the commission doesn't shut things down after some sort of heinous assault. You can also extend this to things like LU/CHIKARA-type worlds magic exists, but I'd put buying into the premise in a different category. Suspension of disbelief should not be used to explain away contradictions.
it's not explaining contradictions, it's explaining that a set of wrestlers could be in two different storylines at the same time, especially when it happens on a match that is not booked/promoted/sanctioned by any given promotion

at this point i don't even know how to explain it anymore, it's just common sense to me that this match we're talking about had nothing to do with NJPW/ROH stories, it's a one off match for the sake of entertaining the fans and give them someone one of a kind for making the expense. just like the Impact vs ROH match was. We got to see it because it was the best match of the cruise and Jericho is trying to sell this year's cruise.
It's a contradiction if their behavior on BTE-pushed shows in two different instances is inconsistent with each other without some explanation of why.
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Re: NWK Reviews Chris Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea (awful)

Post by cero2k » Jan 7th, '19, 13:00

Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 7th, '19, 12:53
It's a contradiction if their behavior on BTE-pushed shows in two different instances is inconsistent with each other without some explanation of why.
i got nothing else, you're gonna have a bad time if you don't separate your shows
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Re: NWK Reviews Chris Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea (awful)

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 7th, '19, 13:07

cero2k wrote: Jan 7th, '19, 13:00
Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 7th, '19, 12:53
It's a contradiction if their behavior on BTE-pushed shows in two different instances is inconsistent with each other without some explanation of why.
i got nothing else, you're gonna have a bad time if you don't separate your shows
I do separate them. But I think it's also reasonable to assume that promotions that shows that have shown that they share a continuity do share a continuity.
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Re: NWK Reviews Chris Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea (awful)

Post by NWK2000 » Jan 8th, '19, 08:49

Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 3rd, '19, 21:11
cero2k wrote: Jan 3rd, '19, 20:46
Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 3rd, '19, 13:24 It's just so painfully apparent that everything about the match wasn't happening because it made sense but rather because "wouldn't it be so cool if...?"
it's a match in a in a freaking cruise with costumes. don't try to connect everything to canon and make things serious. People paid a million bucks to have fun. If any of this was cannon, people would be complaining that it happened on a private show
It certainly is canon. Flip Gordon won an ROH World Title shot out of it, plus they tried to build up to it on both Being The Elite and at All In. And it wasn't a private show because it was posted on Honor Club (as opposed to last year's Soaring Eagle Cup where Dalton won his world title shot, which was a sold show and has yet to see the light of day).
I've got to agree with BRM here. This goes back to a mostly-comedy tournament resulting in a new number 1 contender. I get that it was meant to be a fun show for the cruise crowd, as it shoud've been, but the fact that it was tied to a championship in some way means that you had to acknowledge this (mostly) comedy wrestling show to stay up to date with current, serious storylines. And that isn't to say that comedy matches, or matches that don't make sense in the grand scheme of things (the main event) are even bad practice in this instance. It's relatively easy to make it so that what happens here has no effect on any storylines and achieve the goal of giving the crowd fun matches. You can look at any Pay Per View WWE put on in the United Kingdom 1998-2002 as evidence of this.
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Re: NWK Reviews Chris Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea (awful)

Post by cero2k » Jan 8th, '19, 09:55

NWK2000 wrote: Jan 8th, '19, 08:49

I've got to agree with BRM here. This goes back to a mostly-comedy tournament resulting in a new number 1 contender. I get that it was meant to be a fun show for the cruise crowd, as it shoud've been, but the fact that it was tied to a championship in some way means that you had to acknowledge this (mostly) comedy wrestling show to stay up to date with current, serious storylines. And that isn't to say that comedy matches, or matches that don't make sense in the grand scheme of things (the main event) are even bad practice in this instance. It's relatively easy to make it so that what happens here has no effect on any storylines and achieve the goal of giving the crowd fun matches. You can look at any Pay Per View WWE put on in the United Kingdom 1998-2002 as evidence of this.
don't get me wrong, i'm not excusing the tournament, that was all 100% booked and planned by ROH, they did what they wanted with it. I'm just arguing that the Alpha Bucks vs Bullet Club wasn't part of the original show and that it does not break any NJPW/ROH story since it's a just a one-off match in a one-off show.
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Re: NWK Reviews Chris Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea (awful)

Post by NWK2000 » Jan 8th, '19, 10:14

cero2k wrote: Jan 8th, '19, 09:55
NWK2000 wrote: Jan 8th, '19, 08:49

I've got to agree with BRM here. This goes back to a mostly-comedy tournament resulting in a new number 1 contender. I get that it was meant to be a fun show for the cruise crowd, as it shoud've been, but the fact that it was tied to a championship in some way means that you had to acknowledge this (mostly) comedy wrestling show to stay up to date with current, serious storylines. And that isn't to say that comedy matches, or matches that don't make sense in the grand scheme of things (the main event) are even bad practice in this instance. It's relatively easy to make it so that what happens here has no effect on any storylines and achieve the goal of giving the crowd fun matches. You can look at any Pay Per View WWE put on in the United Kingdom 1998-2002 as evidence of this.
don't get me wrong, i'm not excusing the tournament, that was all 100% booked and planned by ROH, they did what they wanted with it. I'm just arguing that the Alpha Bucks vs Bullet Club wasn't part of the original show and that it does not break any NJPW/ROH story since it's a just a one-off match in a one-off show.
Yeah, I'm sure the main event was tacked on to sell DVDs
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Re: NWK Reviews Chris Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea (awful)

Post by cero2k » Jan 8th, '19, 10:54

NWK2000 wrote: Jan 8th, '19, 10:14
Yeah, I'm sure the main event was tacked on to sell DVDs
yeap, i can't imagine Sea of Honor would have sold if not for that match
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Re: NWK Reviews Chris Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea (awful)

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 8th, '19, 12:36

cero2k wrote: Jan 8th, '19, 09:55
NWK2000 wrote: Jan 8th, '19, 08:49

I've got to agree with BRM here. This goes back to a mostly-comedy tournament resulting in a new number 1 contender. I get that it was meant to be a fun show for the cruise crowd, as it shoud've been, but the fact that it was tied to a championship in some way means that you had to acknowledge this (mostly) comedy wrestling show to stay up to date with current, serious storylines. And that isn't to say that comedy matches, or matches that don't make sense in the grand scheme of things (the main event) are even bad practice in this instance. It's relatively easy to make it so that what happens here has no effect on any storylines and achieve the goal of giving the crowd fun matches. You can look at any Pay Per View WWE put on in the United Kingdom 1998-2002 as evidence of this.
don't get me wrong, i'm not excusing the tournament, that was all 100% booked and planned by ROH, they did what they wanted with it. I'm just arguing that the Alpha Bucks vs Bullet Club wasn't part of the original show and that it does not break any NJPW/ROH story since it's a just a one-off match in a one-off show.
I don't think ROH is interested in selling DVDs anymore (hence why they are months behind and trying to sell almost everything as a bundle). They're interested in pimping Honor Club. As for the idea that Jericho wrestling wasn't part of the original plan: there's no way Jericho was doing this cruise and not planning to wrestle.
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Re: NWK Reviews Chris Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea (awful)

Post by cero2k » Jan 8th, '19, 22:25

Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 8th, '19, 12:36
I don't think ROH is interested in selling DVDs anymore (hence why they are months behind and trying to sell almost everything as a bundle). They're interested in pimping Honor Club. As for the idea that Jericho wrestling wasn't part of the original plan: there's no way Jericho was doing this cruise and not planning to wrestle.
we say DVDs as in selling the show either stream, subscription, or actual dvds. Jericho was always wrstling, putting his matches bundled with a ROH show wasn't. like i said in one of the earlier posts, i don't think that match even happened on the same time as the tournament card
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Re: NWK Reviews Chris Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea (awful)

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 8th, '19, 23:18

cero2k wrote: Jan 8th, '19, 22:25
Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 8th, '19, 12:36
I don't think ROH is interested in selling DVDs anymore (hence why they are months behind and trying to sell almost everything as a bundle). They're interested in pimping Honor Club. As for the idea that Jericho wrestling wasn't part of the original plan: there's no way Jericho was doing this cruise and not planning to wrestle.
we say DVDs as in selling the show either stream, subscription, or actual dvds. Jericho was always wrstling, putting his matches bundled with a ROH show wasn't. like i said in one of the earlier posts, i don't think that match even happened on the same time as the tournament card
But they're not selling the show as a solo VOD, so Jericho wrestling isn't going to create any sort of big rise in subscriptions if such things haven't really worked for anyone else.
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Re: NWK Reviews Chris Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea (awful)

Post by cero2k » Jan 9th, '19, 09:20

Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 8th, '19, 23:18
But they're not selling the show as a solo VOD, so Jericho wrestling isn't going to create any sort of big rise in subscriptions if such things haven't really worked for anyone else.
whatever they're giving away as, even if it's for facebook likes, the Jericho match is to make people actually want to see a boring ass tournament
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Re: NWK Reviews Chris Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea (awful)

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 9th, '19, 10:29

cero2k wrote: Jan 9th, '19, 09:20
Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 8th, '19, 23:18
But they're not selling the show as a solo VOD, so Jericho wrestling isn't going to create any sort of big rise in subscriptions if such things haven't really worked for anyone else.
whatever they're giving away as, even if it's for facebook likes, the Jericho match is to make people actually want to see a boring ass tournament
Only if numbers go up, and while we don't have that info for ROH, that hasn't really been shown to be the case any time ROH has brought in big NJPW names or any time WWE has brought in special attractions or any time NJPW has done something big (and if it was the case, we'd know about it because the company in question would make sure the news got out).
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