'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

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'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by cero2k » Sep 18th, '19, 17:07

Source: f4wonline.com

FOX has announced a slate of programming to hype up SmackDown's premiere on the channel.

Immediately before SmackDown makes its FOX debut on Friday, October 4, there will be a half-hour "blue carpet" kickoff show. FOX wrote that "this star-studded show features 'blue carpet' arrivals and backstage access to celebrities and athletes, as well as past and present WWE Superstars to kick off the new era of WWE on FOX."

The kickoff show will air at 7:30 p.m. Eastern time, 6:30 p.m. Central time, 6:30 p.m. Mountain time, and 7:30 p.m. Pacific time.

FOX's press release noted that SmackDown will air live on the channel on Fridays at 8 p.m. Eastern and 7 p.m. Central. The show won't be live in the Mountain and Pacific time zones. It will air at 7 p.m. Mountain and 8 p.m. Pacific, though SmackDown will stream live nationwide on the FOX Sports App for all authenticated viewers.

SmackDown's 20th anniversary celebration is the theme of the FOX premiere. Brock Lesnar will also challenge for Kofi Kingston's WWE Championship on the episode.

In the days leading up to the SmackDown premiere, two hour-long specials will be shown on FOX. "SmackDown's Greatest Hits" will air on Friday, September 27. It will be hosted by Charlotte Flair and The Miz and will begin at 8 p.m. Eastern, 7 p.m. Central, 7 p.m. Mountain, and 8 p.m. Pacific.

On Sunday, September 29, John Cena will narrate a special called "WrestleMania's Legendary Moments." FOX advised viewers to "check local listings for air times surrounding Sunday’s NFL on FOX singleheader action."



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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by cero2k » Sep 18th, '19, 17:12

NJPW before a big show: Press Conference

AEW before a big show: Weigh-ins

Impact before a big show: Countdown pre-show

WWE: 'Blue' carpet event

tells you what everyone's focus is on

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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 18th, '19, 18:57

cero2k wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 17:12
NJPW before a big show: Press Conference

AEW before a big show: Weigh-ins

Impact before a big show: Countdown pre-show

WWE: 'Blue' carpet event

tells you what everyone's focus is on
These are not analogous. WWE's show specifically has a "reunion" focus. The point of doing such a thing is using names from the past to catch the notice of lapsed fans. A "blue carpet" show does that effectively.

NJPW needs the press conferences because that functions as their "weekly TV" style of build- i.e. promo time.

Also, weigh-ins are overdramatic put-ons even in MMA which has actual weight divisions. Why is AEW even doing weigh-ins- never mind making a big deal out of them- if the wrestlers' weights are completely irrelevant to everything?

TNA, like WWE, has weekly TV, so they do a count-down show... which is exactly what WWE does before each of their big monthly shows.
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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by cero2k » Sep 18th, '19, 20:51

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 18:57
These are not analogous. WWE's show specifically has a "reunion" focus. The point of doing such a thing is using names from the past to catch the notice of lapsed fans. A "blue carpet" show does that effectively.

NJPW needs the press conferences because that functions as their "weekly TV" style of build- i.e. promo time.

Also, weigh-ins are overdramatic put-ons even in MMA which has actual weight divisions. Why is AEW even doing weigh-ins- never mind making a big deal out of them- if the wrestlers' weights are completely irrelevant to everything?

TNA, like WWE, has weekly TV, so they do a count-down show... which is exactly what WWE does before each of their big monthly shows.
they all server the same purpose really, to hype up the show and make it seem like a bigger deal, NJPW doesn't really need those promos for their story telling, the press conferences are only for contract signing and the promos are just cherries on top.

a blue carpet is to make this show look like a big party or event, for fake photo-ops and pretend this is as relevant as the Oscars or whatever movie premiere. It's a reflection of how each promotion wants to frame their product. It's all fake at the end of the day, but while one promotion pretends to be 'combat sports', the other wants to be 'celebrities'

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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 18th, '19, 21:50

cero2k wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 20:51
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 18:57
These are not analogous. WWE's show specifically has a "reunion" focus. The point of doing such a thing is using names from the past to catch the notice of lapsed fans. A "blue carpet" show does that effectively.

NJPW needs the press conferences because that functions as their "weekly TV" style of build- i.e. promo time.

Also, weigh-ins are overdramatic put-ons even in MMA which has actual weight divisions. Why is AEW even doing weigh-ins- never mind making a big deal out of them- if the wrestlers' weights are completely irrelevant to everything?

TNA, like WWE, has weekly TV, so they do a count-down show... which is exactly what WWE does before each of their big monthly shows.
they all server the same purpose really, to hype up the show and make it seem like a bigger deal, NJPW doesn't really need those promos for their story telling, the press conferences are only for contract signing and the promos are just cherries on top.
Promos are a necessary part of a press conference. They are it's literal entire raison d'etre: PRESS conference. NJPW's press conferences are no different that a studio wrestling show's studio promos. They serve as an explanation for why the camera is there to see angle take place.

You are right that these things all hype up the show, but if WWE's goals for what they want to hype are different than NJPW's, then the same tool should not be used.
cero2k wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 20:51
a blue carpet is to make this show look like a big party or event, for fake photo-ops and pretend this is as relevant as the Oscars or whatever movie premiere. It's a reflection of how each promotion wants to frame their product. It's all fake at the end of the day, but while one promotion pretends to be 'combat sports', the other wants to be 'celebrities'
You are ignoring the fact that this is a one-off thing. For WWE's monthly big shows, they do a kick-off show, just the pregame show on TV for every sporting event. You can't pick this one special incident and ignore everything else they did in similar situations.
The situations are also not analogous because this is a special, themed episode of the show: A reunion show. WWE has invited past legends to be WWE celebrities. Therefore the theme is appropriate. If it helps, think of it like the intros of former players at at a "20th anniversary of our championship win" celebration for a sports team. WWE has several hours of TV a week which can- and will- function as a go-home show for the first SD on Smackdown. This show doesn't need to.
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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by cero2k » Sep 18th, '19, 22:50

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 21:50

Promos are a necessary part of a press conference. They are it's literal entire raison d'etre: PRESS conference. NJPW's press conferences are no different that a studio wrestling show's studio promos. They serve as an explanation for why the camera is there to see angle take place.

You are right that these things all hype up the show, but if WWE's goals for what they want to hype are different than NJPW's, then the same tool should not be used.
It's all the same goal really, they're all photo-ops. NJPW doesn't do press conferences for angles and those promos RARELY advance any storyline or sell tickets or say anything that hasn't been said in all the Road To shows before hand, they're all to put their wrestlers in nice suits in a picture for the magazines and newspapers. That is the very same reason why WWE is doing a Blue Carpet. Same purpose, different approach.

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 21:50

You are ignoring the fact that this is a one-off thing. For WWE's monthly big shows, they do a kick-off show, just the pregame show on TV for every sporting event. You can't pick this one special incident and ignore everything else they did in similar situations.
The situations are also not analogous because this is a special, themed episode of the show: A reunion show. WWE has invited past legends to be WWE celebrities. Therefore the theme is appropriate. If it helps, think of it like the intros of former players at at a "20th anniversary of our championship win" celebration for a sports team. WWE has several hours of TV a week which can- and will- function as a go-home show for the first SD on Smackdown. This show doesn't need to.
It's not a reunion show, it's a show premiere, like a movie premiere. It's how you fake how many people are interested in the thing you're doing, where people go to be 'seen' and look pretty on camera. Except it's all WWE fakeness. OMG Becky Lynch, who are you wearing tonight? Look at us! We're celebrities!

You're being a bit literal with what 'big show' constitutes, i'm not comparing ppvs here, it's about what they, at their level, consider a big show. WWE ppvs are not big shows, AEW's ppvs are as big as they can get right now because they have nothing else; so it doesn't matter if it's a one-off thing thing for WWE. I'm referencing what each promotion considers worthy and appropriate as a hype pre-event to their big milestones, it's what each company wants to be shown on tomorrow's newspaper.

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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 19th, '19, 09:01

cero2k wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 22:50
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 21:50

Promos are a necessary part of a press conference. They are it's literal entire raison d'etre: PRESS conference. NJPW's press conferences are no different that a studio wrestling show's studio promos. They serve as an explanation for why the camera is there to see angle take place.

You are right that these things all hype up the show, but if WWE's goals for what they want to hype are different than NJPW's, then the same tool should not be used.
It's all the same goal really, they're all photo-ops. NJPW doesn't do press conferences for angles and those promos RARELY advance any storyline or sell tickets or say anything that hasn't been said in all the Road To shows before hand, they're all to put their wrestlers in nice suits in a picture for the magazines and newspapers. That is the very same reason why WWE is doing a Blue Carpet. Same purpose, different approach.
I have been referring to the post-show press conferences, where confrontations occur and promos are cut.

If you think this is the "same purpose" as WWE's "blue carpet special" then what makes it okay for NJPW to do but not WWE.
cero2k wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 21:50

You are ignoring the fact that this is a one-off thing. For WWE's monthly big shows, they do a kick-off show, just the pregame show on TV for every sporting event. You can't pick this one special incident and ignore everything else they did in similar situations.
The situations are also not analogous because this is a special, themed episode of the show: A reunion show. WWE has invited past legends to be WWE celebrities. Therefore the theme is appropriate. If it helps, think of it like the intros of former players at at a "20th anniversary of our championship win" celebration for a sports team. WWE has several hours of TV a week which can- and will- function as a go-home show for the first SD on Smackdown. This show doesn't need to.
It's not a reunion show, it's a show premiere, like a movie premiere. It's how you fake how many people are interested in the thing you're doing, where people go to be 'seen' and look pretty on camera. Except it's all WWE fakeness. OMG Becky Lynch, who are you wearing tonight? Look at us! We're celebrities!

You're being a bit literal with what 'big show' constitutes, i'm not comparing ppvs here, it's about what they, at their level, consider a big show. WWE ppvs are not big shows, AEW's ppvs are as big as they can get right now because they have nothing else; so it doesn't matter if it's a one-off thing thing for WWE. I'm referencing what each promotion considers worthy and appropriate as a hype pre-event to their big milestones, it's what each company wants to be shown on tomorrow's newspaper.
How can you say this isn't a reunion show when WWE and Fox are advertising it as one?

I disagree that WWE doesn't consider their PPVs big shows, but surely you will admit that they consider their Big Four to be big shows, and they di a kickoff show for those.

It very much matters that this is a one-off thing because it's a lot harder to claim that a one-off thing exposes how they want their product to be perceived than their normal modus operandi for every other big show.
And I think you're wrong that WWE would rather have attention from media on their storylines than on who is wearing what dress or which legend shows up, but they realize that news outlets only being interested in the latter is a possibility so they are doing something to up the chances. Similarly, I'm sure places would rather people be talking about their storylines than Cody getting retweeted by AOC, but they're not going to run away from the latter, either, if they think that's their best shot at getting media attention.
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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by cero2k » Sep 19th, '19, 09:47

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 19th, '19, 09:01

I have been referring to the post-show press conferences, where confrontations occur and promos are cut.

If you think this is the "same purpose" as WWE's "blue carpet special" then what makes it okay for NJPW to do but not WWE.
Those aren't really press conferences as they are more like quick interviews, those aren't done for big shows only either, those are every day stuff. I'm talking about the G1 Press Conference. The Wrestle Kingdom contract signing. Those are big shows.

I'm not saying anything about what makes it 'okay' for one promotion or the other at all, I'm just pointing out how each company addresses their purpose. One promotion does a press conference, the other one parades on a blue carpet. There's nothing wrong with either, just a reflection of what each company tries to sell you.

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 21:50
How can you say this isn't a reunion show when WWE and Fox are advertising it as one?

I disagree that WWE doesn't consider their PPVs big shows, but surely you will admit that they consider their Big Four to be big shows, and they di a kickoff show for those.

It very much matters that this is a one-off thing because it's a lot harder to claim that a one-off thing exposes how they want their product to be perceived than their normal modus operandi for every other big show.
And I think you're wrong that WWE would rather have attention from media on their storylines than on who is wearing what dress or which legend shows up, but they realize that news outlets only being interested in the latter is a possibility so they are doing something to up the chances. Similarly, I'm sure places would rather people be talking about their storylines than Cody getting retweeted by AOC, but they're not going to run away from the latter, either, if they think that's their best shot at getting media attention.
Where are they saying it's a 'Smackdown Reunion' ? It's the show's premiere, if they're indeed promoting it as a 'reunion' then they're universally stupid because a premiere is a FAR bigger deal than a reunion. We get one of those every month now a days.

if normal PPVs were a big deal for WWE, they'd have Axxess during them like they do with the actual 'big shows'. There's a reason why there isn't a Takeover before Stomping Grounds. And kick-off shows are just part of the show itself, they're technically dark matches, they're not the 'hype' event they do to showcase the talent involved like a press conference, weigh-in, or a blue carpet would.

You're gonna sit there and tell me that Vince and company haven't hoped to be pop-culture celebrities for years now? The company that changed the term wrestling for sports entertainment, the company that has a movie division and hoped to start a concert division too? the company that will rather put over celebrities than their own wrestlers? They're doing this because they want to be seen like a big celebrity party. You don't have to see them do this for years to say that this one off is a really unique situation and it doesn't reflect that they're attention whores. This isn't WWE covering all sides, this is WWE's idea of a hollywood party because they're not a wrestling company, they're an entertainment one.

The difference here with the Cody/AOC thing is that WWE has to fabricate that attention, Cody's happened naturally.

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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 19th, '19, 18:50

cero2k wrote:
Sep 19th, '19, 09:47
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 19th, '19, 09:01

I have been referring to the post-show press conferences, where confrontations occur and promos are cut.

If you think this is the "same purpose" as WWE's "blue carpet special" then what makes it okay for NJPW to do but not WWE.
Those aren't really press conferences as they are more like quick interviews, those aren't done for big shows only either, those are every day stuff. I'm talking about the G1 Press Conference. The Wrestle Kingdom contract signing. Those are big shows.
Those are very literally press conferences, and look- purposefully- exactly like the press conferences you see players anc coaches give after games.
cero2k wrote:
Sep 19th, '19, 09:47
I'm not saying anything about what makes it 'okay' for one promotion or the other at all, I'm just pointing out how each company addresses their purpose. One promotion does a press conference, the other one parades on a blue carpet. There's nothing wrong with either, just a reflection of what each company tries to sell you.
It really seems like you are saying there is something wrong with WWE's way of doing things. Apologies if I misunderstood.
cero2k wrote:
Sep 19th, '19, 09:47
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 21:50
How can you say this isn't a reunion show when WWE and Fox are advertising it as one?

I disagree that WWE doesn't consider their PPVs big shows, but surely you will admit that they consider their Big Four to be big shows, and they di a kickoff show for those.

It very much matters that this is a one-off thing because it's a lot harder to claim that a one-off thing exposes how they want their product to be perceived than their normal modus operandi for every other big show.
And I think you're wrong that WWE would rather have attention from media on their storylines than on who is wearing what dress or which legend shows up, but they realize that news outlets only being interested in the latter is a possibility so they are doing something to up the chances. Similarly, I'm sure places would rather people be talking about their storylines than Cody getting retweeted by AOC, but they're not going to run away from the latter, either, if they think that's their best shot at getting media attention.
Where are they saying it's a 'Smackdown Reunion' ? It's the show's premiere, if they're indeed promoting it as a 'reunion' then they're universally stupid because a premiere is a FAR bigger deal than a reunion. We get one of those every month now a days.
They're promoting it as a "20th Anniversary celebration" and have announced a slew of legends from the past. That's a reunion show right there.

cero2k wrote:
Sep 19th, '19, 09:47
if normal PPVs were a big deal for WWE, they'd have Axxess during them like they do with the actual 'big shows'. There's a reason why there isn't a Takeover before Stomping Grounds. And kick-off shows are just part of the show itself, they're technically dark matches, they're not the 'hype' event they do to showcase the talent involved like a press conference, weigh-in, or a blue carpet would.
There isn't a TakeOver before Stomping Grounds, but they have done them before big May/June shows in the past. But even then, I don't think that's a fair bar to set because TakeOver's are intended to be done on NXT's booking schedule, not WWE's (that's why they have some TakeOver shows not to WWE PPVs, too.
Kickoff show matches aren't dark matches. They are broadcast, and not only are they braodcast, but they are something you're supposed to want to see because they spend time building them up on TV.
New Japan does what they do because they have made the choice specifically to have so few "big" shows under your definition because they have chosen to spread their big matches out over ten or eleven shows on many of their tours instead of using a traditional "PPV cycle" like most other companies of notable size do (I'd argue that even wXw falls under this category even though they rarely do more than one build-up show between big monthly shows), and like NJPW themselves used to. And yes, this allows them to reserve certain things like big contract-signing press conferences for those shows without them starting to lose their meaning, and that is smart of them to do. But it is also true that part of the reason that NJPW does this is that they have nowhere else to do a contract signing when they want to, whereas WWE/TNA/ROH/AEW/NXT can just do the contract signing on their weekly TV show.
I think defining what is a "big show" more by the accoutrements around it than the effort put into trying to make us think the card is important and what matches are happening on it is completely backwards. Best in the World 2011 was a HUGE show in ROH's history (the first official Sinclair Era) show and ROH did, in fact, manage to pull together a press conference for it that they made a big deal out of... but it wasn't the press conference that made that show big. That show was big because of Davey vs. Eddie and the big four-way for the tag belts and the Bucks coming back to face Future Shock and Generico vs. the House of Truth and all of the other stories that built up to that moment. If WWE spends weeks building up to a show where many titles are on the line and they're charging you extra money to see it, that is a big show, and to argue that it isn't just because they don't have a whole host of fan-weekend events is silly. They only used to do axxxess during Mania weekend. Were SummerSlam and the Rumble not big shows during that time?

cero2k wrote:
Sep 19th, '19, 09:47
You're gonna sit there and tell me that Vince and company haven't hoped to be pop-culture celebrities for years now? The company that changed the term wrestling for sports entertainment, the company that has a movie division and hoped to start a concert division too? the company that will rather put over celebrities than their own wrestlers? They're doing this because they want to be seen like a big celebrity party. You don't have to see them do this for years to say that this one off is a really unique situation and it doesn't reflect that they're attention whores. This isn't WWE covering all sides, this is WWE's idea of a hollywood party because they're not a wrestling company, they're an entertainment one.


The difference here with the Cody/AOC thing is that WWE has to fabricate that attention, Cody's happened naturally.
Irrelevant. Both WWE's red carpet stuff and AOC retweeting Cody are unrelated to the actual wrestling product, and yet the promotions would be happy to use them.

And I'm not even saying there is anything wrong with any of that. Just like I don't think there is anything wrong with Vince and co. wanting to be pop culture celebrities. But I think you're being naive if you don't think that Gedo doesn't want the same of Okada and Tanahashi and friends. Wanting your wrestlers to feel like pop culture celebrities is natural, because if they do, it gives you a better chance at drawing new fans through crossover. The "rather put over celebrities" thing applies just as much to The Elite and their buddy Stephen Amell as it does to Vince putting over Gronk or LT. That was for crossover appeal, too. What the promotion then has to do, though- in all of these cases, including the Cody/AOC thing- is to then deliver a compelling product that makes the people who did take the leap and cross over happy that they did so.
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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by cero2k » Sep 20th, '19, 15:38

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 19th, '19, 18:50

Those are very literally press conferences, and look- purposefully- exactly like the press conferences you see players anc coaches give after games.
I know they are, but the big pre-event ones do stand out against these.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 19th, '19, 18:50
It really seems like you are saying there is something wrong with WWE's way of doing things. Apologies if I misunderstood.
no worries, understandable given my reputation

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 21:50
They're promoting it as a "20th Anniversary celebration" and have announced a slew of legends from the past. That's a reunion show right there.
then I stand corrected and i personally think it's a big mistake to start your new show relying on nostalgia. 90219 and the new Brady Bunch show proved that those ratings don't stick.

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 19th, '19, 18:50
There isn't a TakeOver before Stomping Grounds, but they have done them before big May/June shows in the past. But even then, I don't think that's a fair bar to set because TakeOver's are intended to be done on NXT's booking schedule, not WWE's (that's why they have some TakeOver shows not to WWE PPVs, too.
Kickoff show matches aren't dark matches. They are broadcast, and not only are they braodcast, but they are something you're supposed to want to see because they spend time building them up on TV.
New Japan does what they do because they have made the choice specifically to have so few "big" shows under your definition because they have chosen to spread their big matches out over ten or eleven shows on many of their tours instead of using a traditional "PPV cycle" like most other companies of notable size do (I'd argue that even wXw falls under this category even though they rarely do more than one build-up show between big monthly shows), and like NJPW themselves used to. And yes, this allows them to reserve certain things like big contract-signing press conferences for those shows without them starting to lose their meaning, and that is smart of them to do. But it is also true that part of the reason that NJPW does this is that they have nowhere else to do a contract signing when they want to, whereas WWE/TNA/ROH/AEW/NXT can just do the contract signing on their weekly TV show.
I think defining what is a "big show" more by the accoutrements around it than the effort put into trying to make us think the card is important and what matches are happening on it is completely backwards. Best in the World 2011 was a HUGE show in ROH's history (the first official Sinclair Era) show and ROH did, in fact, manage to pull together a press conference for it that they made a big deal out of... but it wasn't the press conference that made that show big. That show was big because of Davey vs. Eddie and the big four-way for the tag belts and the Bucks coming back to face Future Shock and Generico vs. the House of Truth and all of the other stories that built up to that moment. If WWE spends weeks building up to a show where many titles are on the line and they're charging you extra money to see it, that is a big show, and to argue that it isn't just because they don't have a whole host of fan-weekend events is silly. They only used to do axxxess during Mania weekend. Were SummerSlam and the Rumble not big shows during that time?
So then kickoff matches ARE part of the show, they're not pre-show events like the stuff we're talking about there. They're written into the program, while we're talking about pre-event stuff that are their own event for themselves.
I'm not exactly saying that these things are what make the events big, but the promotions add them to what they consider big milestones. The contract signing thing is another example on the differences of the companies, and not just because NJPW doesn't have the weekly show to do them in, but in how WWE contract signings are segments that end up in drama, while NJPW's are just that, contract signings, professional, and in the last 10 yrs of me following the promotion, I've only known of Jericho vs Omega that ended in chaos. It's all about the perception you want you events to look like.
WWE could have opened the FOX debut news media kind of event, or do a draft like the NBA/NFL, but they go with the hollywood route. As phony as it is, AEW pretends to have a weigh-in with promos and fan interaction. When I see the three examples we're working with, the G1 seems like a serious tournament, AEW shows seem to have a certain level or sports into them, and with WWE, I feel like i'm watching a movie premiere or the WMAs. IMO, i think they're all doing a proper execution on each of them, but i'm surely less interested in hollywood than a serious tournament.

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 19th, '19, 18:50
Irrelevant. Both WWE's red carpet stuff and AOC retweeting Cody are unrelated to the actual wrestling product, and yet the promotions would be happy to use them.

And I'm not even saying there is anything wrong with any of that. Just like I don't think there is anything wrong with Vince and co. wanting to be pop culture celebrities. But I think you're being naive if you don't think that Gedo doesn't want the same of Okada and Tanahashi and friends. Wanting your wrestlers to feel like pop culture celebrities is natural, because if they do, it gives you a better chance at drawing new fans through crossover. The "rather put over celebrities" thing applies just as much to The Elite and their buddy Stephen Amell as it does to Vince putting over Gronk or LT. That was for crossover appeal, too. What the promotion then has to do, though- in all of these cases, including the Cody/AOC thing- is to then deliver a compelling product that makes the people who did take the leap and cross over happy that they did so.
Yes, not related, but like I said, WWE created their red carpet. it's like if they sold kayfabe storyliens to TMZ.

Sure, everyone wants to be pop culture celebrities, the difference is what takes the top shelf in your priorities. Tana and Okada get show in tons of stuff, but they're always in their gear, they're always representing wrestling. They give the impression that they want to be known for their wrestling, while WWE doesn't give me that impression, it's been a joke forever, but I think there's some truth to the idea that if Vince could, he wouldn't have wrestling on his shows and just the drama. There's a ton of things that WWE does that make it seem like they're craving the rub and attention, like when they send out those titles to each champion of whatever sport, they just want and hope that they get news out of that. I have to imagine that ton of Japanese celebrities have gone to NJPW shows and they've never been shown on camera. It's all about what your priorities are. Given the nature of this country, it's nothing unreal or wrong that they want to be A-List celebrities, but WWE sometimes comes off as a bit too needy.

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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by Bob-O » Sep 20th, '19, 20:40

cero2k wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 20:51
Why is AEW even doing weigh-ins- never mind making a big deal out of them- if the wrestlers' weights are completely irrelevant to everything?
Hahaha! I never considered that! Excellent observation.
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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by cero2k » Sep 20th, '19, 21:35

Bob-O wrote:
Sep 20th, '19, 20:40
cero2k wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 20:51
Why is AEW even doing weigh-ins- never mind making a big deal out of them- if the wrestlers' weights are completely irrelevant to everything?
Hahaha! I never considered that! Excellent observation.
Just an excuse to get the wrestlers and the fans in the same room interacting and talking. Most of the times someone actually gets weighted, it's some gimmick.

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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by KILLdozer » Sep 21st, '19, 09:33

cero2k wrote:
Sep 20th, '19, 21:35
Bob-O wrote:
Sep 20th, '19, 20:40
cero2k wrote:
Sep 18th, '19, 20:51
Why is AEW even doing weigh-ins- never mind making a big deal out of them- if the wrestlers' weights are completely irrelevant to everything?
Hahaha! I never considered that! Excellent observation.
Just an excuse to get the wrestlers and the fans in the same room interacting and talking. Most of the times someone actually gets weighted, it's some gimmick.
They're definitely NOT irrelevant..."HOW MUCH DOES THAT GUY WEIGH?????!?"
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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 22nd, '19, 18:40

cero2k wrote:
Sep 20th, '19, 15:38
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 19th, '19, 18:50
There isn't a TakeOver before Stomping Grounds, but they have done them before big May/June shows in the past. But even then, I don't think that's a fair bar to set because TakeOver's are intended to be done on NXT's booking schedule, not WWE's (that's why they have some TakeOver shows not to WWE PPVs, too.
Kickoff show matches aren't dark matches. They are broadcast, and not only are they braodcast, but they are something you're supposed to want to see because they spend time building them up on TV.
New Japan does what they do because they have made the choice specifically to have so few "big" shows under your definition because they have chosen to spread their big matches out over ten or eleven shows on many of their tours instead of using a traditional "PPV cycle" like most other companies of notable size do (I'd argue that even wXw falls under this category even though they rarely do more than one build-up show between big monthly shows), and like NJPW themselves used to. And yes, this allows them to reserve certain things like big contract-signing press conferences for those shows without them starting to lose their meaning, and that is smart of them to do. But it is also true that part of the reason that NJPW does this is that they have nowhere else to do a contract signing when they want to, whereas WWE/TNA/ROH/AEW/NXT can just do the contract signing on their weekly TV show.
I think defining what is a "big show" more by the accoutrements around it than the effort put into trying to make us think the card is important and what matches are happening on it is completely backwards. Best in the World 2011 was a HUGE show in ROH's history (the first official Sinclair Era) show and ROH did, in fact, manage to pull together a press conference for it that they made a big deal out of... but it wasn't the press conference that made that show big. That show was big because of Davey vs. Eddie and the big four-way for the tag belts and the Bucks coming back to face Future Shock and Generico vs. the House of Truth and all of the other stories that built up to that moment. If WWE spends weeks building up to a show where many titles are on the line and they're charging you extra money to see it, that is a big show, and to argue that it isn't just because they don't have a whole host of fan-weekend events is silly. They only used to do axxxess during Mania weekend. Were SummerSlam and the Rumble not big shows during that time?
So then kickoff matches ARE part of the show, they're not pre-show events like the stuff we're talking about there. They're written into the program, while we're talking about pre-event stuff that are their own event for themselves.
I'm not exactly saying that these things are what make the events big, but the promotions add them to what they consider big milestones. The contract signing thing is another example on the differences of the companies, and not just because NJPW doesn't have the weekly show to do them in, but in how WWE contract signings are segments that end up in drama, while NJPW's are just that, contract signings, professional, and in the last 10 yrs of me following the promotion, I've only known of Jericho vs Omega that ended in chaos. It's all about the perception you want you events to look like.
WWE could have opened the FOX debut news media kind of event, or do a draft like the NBA/NFL, but they go with the hollywood route. As phony as it is, AEW pretends to have a weigh-in with promos and fan interaction. When I see the three examples we're working with, the G1 seems like a serious tournament, AEW shows seem to have a certain level or sports into them, and with WWE, I feel like i'm watching a movie premiere or the WMAs. IMO, i think they're all doing a proper execution on each of them, but i'm surely less interested in hollywood than a serious tournament.
The kickoff show matches are teasers to get you interested in the action. It's no different than AEW's Buy-In's are, and I think the people trying to tell me that All Out: The Buy-Inisn't part of All Out are silly. The kick-off show and buy-ins are a mixture of a UFC FightPass card and a traditional pre-game show, with the UFC part serving the function of a tease of the action to get you excited enough to pay if you're the sort of person who doesn't care about angles.

You're not wrong about the Hollywood vs. "serious sport" part... but it's exactly that sort of thing that gets me more annoyed at NJPW when kayfabe management or referees don't call it like it's a real sport and do their jobs like it's a real sport. I think a product needs to be consistent with what they are, and as much as I don't like what they are, WWE's main roster is at least more consistent in that way than New Japan.
Additionally- and I'm not saying this as any sort of defense- I think that the reason WWE's contract signings always end in a physical angle is because WWE just plain lacks the creativity to break out of patterns. I don't think your analysis of the sports vs Hollywood thing is wrong, but I don't think this particular point applies to it, as even if they did do contract signings that ended in nothing but a stare-down, the "Hollywood" desire would still be there.
cero2k wrote:
Sep 20th, '19, 15:38
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 19th, '19, 18:50
Irrelevant. Both WWE's red carpet stuff and AOC retweeting Cody are unrelated to the actual wrestling product, and yet the promotions would be happy to use them.

And I'm not even saying there is anything wrong with any of that. Just like I don't think there is anything wrong with Vince and co. wanting to be pop culture celebrities. But I think you're being naive if you don't think that Gedo doesn't want the same of Okada and Tanahashi and friends. Wanting your wrestlers to feel like pop culture celebrities is natural, because if they do, it gives you a better chance at drawing new fans through crossover. The "rather put over celebrities" thing applies just as much to The Elite and their buddy Stephen Amell as it does to Vince putting over Gronk or LT. That was for crossover appeal, too. What the promotion then has to do, though- in all of these cases, including the Cody/AOC thing- is to then deliver a compelling product that makes the people who did take the leap and cross over happy that they did so.
Yes, not related, but like I said, WWE created their red carpet. it's like if they sold kayfabe storyliens to TMZ.

Sure, everyone wants to be pop culture celebrities, the difference is what takes the top shelf in your priorities. Tana and Okada get show in tons of stuff, but they're always in their gear, they're always representing wrestling. They give the impression that they want to be known for their wrestling, while WWE doesn't give me that impression, it's been a joke forever, but I think there's some truth to the idea that if Vince could, he wouldn't have wrestling on his shows and just the drama. There's a ton of things that WWE does that make it seem like they're craving the rub and attention, like when they send out those titles to each champion of whatever sport, they just want and hope that they get news out of that. I have to imagine that ton of Japanese celebrities have gone to NJPW shows and they've never been shown on camera. It's all about what your priorities are. Given the nature of this country, it's nothing unreal or wrong that they want to be A-List celebrities, but WWE sometimes comes off as a bit too needy.
Also, I'm pretty sure WWE has sold kayfabe stories to TMZ.
And yes, WWE is very needy, but I think that comes from a lack of self-esteem about their product that they've had for a long time now. I think the "Hollywood" desire is a coping mechanism on the part of Vince (and, in terms of the way the show is shot, Kevin Dunn). Rather than admit that a chunk of their target market has adjusted their tastes and thus the product must change with that, they are sticking to the way they have come up with a way to justify to themselves that their way of doing things is actually the best strategy in the long run.
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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by XIV » Sep 23rd, '19, 06:14

Nobody appears alarmed that Brock Lesnar is obviously going to win the WWE Championship. I am alarmed.
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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by KILLdozer » Sep 23rd, '19, 14:24

XIV wrote:
Sep 23rd, '19, 06:14
Nobody appears alarmed that Brock Lesnar is obviously going to win the WWE Championship. I am alarmed.
I'm more just disgusted. By this point that show has gone on for way too long and he needs a new role. Part of me thinks, and hopes, that there's no way that THIS Is how It ends for Kingston's reign...
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Re: 'Blue carpet' show airing before WWE SmackDown's FOX debut

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 23rd, '19, 16:39

KILLdozer wrote:
Sep 23rd, '19, 14:24
XIV wrote:
Sep 23rd, '19, 06:14
Nobody appears alarmed that Brock Lesnar is obviously going to win the WWE Championship. I am alarmed.
I'm more just disgusted. By this point that show has gone on for way too long and he needs a new role. Part of me thinks, and hopes, that there's no way that THIS Is how It ends for Kingston's reign...
Dozer suns up my feelings here pretty well. I'm over the Brock stuff in terms if being angry about it because it has gone on so long. That doesn't mean it's not a big push factor for me, because it is. It's just that it's one I don't have any new ways to be angry about.
I'm more disappointed that they will probably end Kofi's reign just to do this same crap all over again. As I said in my review, unless Kofi beats Brock clean, this is a mistake.
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