Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 19th, '19, 18:50
Those are very literally press conferences, and look- purposefully- exactly like the press conferences you see players anc coaches give after games.
I know they are, but the big pre-event ones do stand out against these.
Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 19th, '19, 18:50
It really seems like you are saying there is something wrong with WWE's way of doing things. Apologies if I misunderstood.
no worries, understandable given my reputation
Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 18th, '19, 21:50
They're promoting it as a "20th Anniversary celebration" and have announced a slew of legends from the past. That's a reunion show right there.
then I stand corrected and i personally think it's a big mistake to start your new show relying on nostalgia. 90219 and the new Brady Bunch show proved that those ratings don't stick.
Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 19th, '19, 18:50
There isn't a TakeOver before Stomping Grounds, but they have done them before big May/June shows in the past. But even then, I don't think that's a fair bar to set because TakeOver's are intended to be done on NXT's booking schedule, not WWE's (that's why they have some TakeOver shows
not to WWE PPVs, too.
Kickoff show matches aren't dark matches. They are broadcast, and not only are they braodcast, but they are something you're supposed to want to see because they spend time building them up on TV.
New Japan does what they do because they have made the choice specifically to have so few "big" shows under your definition because they have chosen to spread their big matches out over ten or eleven shows on many of their tours instead of using a traditional "PPV cycle" like most other companies of notable size do (I'd argue that even wXw falls under this category even though they rarely do more than one build-up show between big monthly shows), and like NJPW themselves used to. And yes, this allows them to reserve certain things like big contract-signing press conferences for those shows without them starting to lose their meaning, and that is smart of them to do. But it is also true that part of the reason that NJPW does this is that they have nowhere else to do a contract signing when they want to, whereas WWE/TNA/ROH/AEW/NXT can just do the contract signing on their weekly TV show.
I think defining what is a "big show" more by the accoutrements around it than the effort put into trying to make us think the card is important and what matches are happening on it is completely backwards. Best in the World 2011 was a HUGE show in ROH's history (the first official Sinclair Era) show and ROH did, in fact, manage to pull together a press conference for it that they made a big deal out of... but it wasn't the press conference that made that show big. That show was big because of Davey vs. Eddie and the big four-way for the tag belts and the Bucks coming back to face Future Shock and Generico vs. the House of Truth and all of the other stories that built up to that moment. If WWE spends weeks building up to a show where many titles are on the line and they're charging you extra money to see it, that is a big show, and to argue that it isn't just because they don't have a whole host of fan-weekend events is silly. They only used to do axxxess during Mania weekend. Were SummerSlam and the Rumble not big shows during that time?
So then kickoff matches ARE part of the show, they're not pre-show events like the stuff we're talking about there. They're written into the program, while we're talking about pre-event stuff that are their own event for themselves.
I'm not exactly saying that these things are what make the events big, but the promotions add them to what they consider big milestones. The contract signing thing is another example on the differences of the companies, and not just because NJPW doesn't have the weekly show to do them in, but in how WWE contract signings are segments that end up in drama, while NJPW's are just that, contract signings, professional, and in the last 10 yrs of me following the promotion, I've only known of Jericho vs Omega that ended in chaos. It's all about the perception you want you events to look like.
WWE could have opened the FOX debut news media kind of event, or do a draft like the NBA/NFL, but they go with the hollywood route. As phony as it is, AEW pretends to have a weigh-in with promos and fan interaction. When I see the three examples we're working with, the G1 seems like a serious tournament, AEW shows seem to have a certain level or sports into them, and with WWE, I feel like i'm watching a movie premiere or the WMAs. IMO, i think they're all doing a proper execution on each of them, but i'm surely less interested in hollywood than a serious tournament.
Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 19th, '19, 18:50
Irrelevant. Both WWE's red carpet stuff and AOC retweeting Cody are unrelated to the actual wrestling product, and yet the promotions would be happy to use them.
And I'm not even saying there is anything wrong with any of that. Just like I don't think there is anything wrong with Vince and co. wanting to be pop culture celebrities. But I think you're being naive if you don't think that Gedo doesn't want the same of Okada and Tanahashi and friends. Wanting your wrestlers to feel like pop culture celebrities is natural, because if they do, it gives you a better chance at drawing new fans through crossover. The "rather put over celebrities" thing applies just as much to The Elite and their buddy Stephen Amell as it does to Vince putting over Gronk or LT. That was for crossover appeal, too. What the promotion then has to do, though- in all of these cases, including the Cody/AOC thing- is to then deliver a compelling product that makes the people who did take the leap and cross over happy that they did so.
Yes, not related, but like I said, WWE created their red carpet. it's like if they sold kayfabe storyliens to TMZ.
Sure, everyone wants to be pop culture celebrities, the difference is what takes the top shelf in your priorities. Tana and Okada get show in tons of stuff, but they're always in their gear, they're always representing wrestling. They give the impression that they want to be known for their wrestling, while WWE doesn't give me that impression, it's been a joke forever, but I think there's some truth to the idea that if Vince could, he wouldn't have wrestling on his shows and just the drama. There's a ton of things that WWE does that make it seem like they're craving the rub and attention, like when they send out those titles to each champion of whatever sport, they just want and hope that they get news out of that. I have to imagine that ton of Japanese celebrities have gone to NJPW shows and they've never been shown on camera. It's all about what your priorities are. Given the nature of this country, it's nothing unreal or wrong that they want to be A-List celebrities, but WWE sometimes comes off as a bit too needy.