AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by cero2k » Feb 20th, '20, 09:15

Big Red Machine wrote:
Feb 19th, '20, 22:52

Yeah, probably, but having less of a problem than NXT's problem means that AEW still has a problem.
sure, but it seems to be a whole industry problem, RAW just had one of the worse drop ever. AEW is not perfect, but it's doing far better than a lot of people try to make it seem.

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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by Bob-O » Feb 20th, '20, 11:21

Here's where I'm at, bear with me.

Historically speaking, Wrestling hits a "boom period" once a generation, every 15 or 20 years. It blew up in the 60's as it transitioned from pure sport into more of a spectacle. That got played out through the 70's, while we saw the birth of some of our greatest legends during this time, people were tuning out. Cue up the 80's and the Rock n Wrestling Connection and everything clicked again. Hulkamaina, Wrestlemania... we fizzled going into the 90's, kicking back up a little early as wrestling adapted once again to society and it all clicked. We clicked GOOD that time, NWO/Austin/Rock/Goldberg... we're going to round up and call it the 2000's boom, despite it hitting a few years early.

Not to get all tinfoil hatty, but few can deny that history repeats itself. Every generation finds a love of wrestling for a period, and we're overdue for this generation to pick it up. Probably delayed by the amount of easy to find material out there, but it's going to happen! Something just needs to click, and only a fool would think that it's going to be Lesnar, Goldberg, Cena, Edge... or even Jericho or Moxley ushering this in! Verne Gagne was not the face of Rock N Wrestling, just like Hogan's face isn't stamped on The Attitude Era...

We came SO CLOSE when The Bullet Club was on fire two years ago, which transitioned into AEW... and they they didn't run with Omega out of the gate... that was it right there. They had it, now we wait, but it's coming... not sure who or what, but it's coming... something is going to connect with this generation and we're off to the races again. That's why I say writing AEW off in 5 years is a little short sighted... so much can happen, so much is overdue, and in 5 years time WWE could be bought and already closed by Amazon!

I'll close on this. The ONE THING each boom period has in common is that it pissed off the grown ups. "That's NOT wrestling." "THIS is SO fake." "I am OFFENDED by this." "They've gone TOO far, this is just garbage."

Think about that the next time some of you roll your sleeves up to let the world know what you think of Orange Cassidy... just sayin'... 5 million tuned in to watch Triple H fuck a dead body.
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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 20th, '20, 11:30

cero2k wrote:
Feb 20th, '20, 09:15
Big Red Machine wrote:
Feb 19th, '20, 22:52

Yeah, probably, but having less of a problem than NXT's problem means that AEW still has a problem.
sure, but it seems to be a whole industry problem, RAW just had one of the worse drop ever. AEW is not perfect, but it's doing far better than a lot of people try to make it seem.
I actually think that AEW (and NXT, to an extent) are actually both doing a medium amount worse than people thought they would
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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by XIV » Feb 20th, '20, 12:16

cero2k wrote:
Feb 19th, '20, 21:37
XIV wrote:
Feb 19th, '20, 01:35


At least TNA had the temporary balls to go head to head with Raw on Mondays.
yeah, the balls of a drunk who's had enough liquid encouragement. It's nothing to be proud off or worth showing off
I didn’t say it was a good idea or that it was smart.
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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by XIV » Feb 20th, '20, 12:17

cero2k wrote:
Feb 19th, '20, 21:38
XIV wrote:
Feb 18th, '20, 12:44
This is still WWE's THIRD rated show that they're proud of beating.

NXT will always win long term, because if they really wanted to, WWE could put so much star power into NXT that AEW wouldn't stand a chance. WWE has a roster of well over 100 to draw from. AEW uses the same 20 guys to fill their shows each week. Depth will always win. There's only so many times that watching the same tag match is entertaining.

"Next week on NXT, The Rock will be appearing"

"Next week on NXT, Goldberg vs Adam Cole"

"Next week on NXT, Brock Lesnar will be turning NXT into Suplex City"

Believe me, if WWE wanted to do it.... they could. If they actually felt a true long term threat. Then watch those ratings spike.
exactly. rely on old people, like they do for all their shows.
Yes, they would be, but it would work.

But out of the two companies, only one has a 50 year old World Champion.
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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by cero2k » Feb 20th, '20, 14:17

Big Red Machine wrote:
Feb 20th, '20, 11:30


I actually think that AEW (and NXT, to an extent) are actually both doing a medium amount worse than people thought they would
really? i think you had high expectations for both. RAW itself flirts with the "below 2M" line most weeks, and that's THE wrestling show. both AEW and NXT required a change in habit to begin with.

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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by cero2k » Feb 20th, '20, 14:20

XIV wrote:
Feb 20th, '20, 12:17

Yes, they would be, but it would work.

But out of the two companies, only one has a 50 year old World Champion.
of course it would, old people are over, people love nostalgia, but if we're talking that 4/5 year long term where you don't see AEW surviving? I don't see those old people being active or alive, what will the fed do then? Another Lee vs Dijak match?

I mean, Brock ain't no spring chicken either, but hey, at least one champion doesn't miss the shows.

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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 20th, '20, 22:57

cero2k wrote:
Feb 20th, '20, 14:17
Big Red Machine wrote:
Feb 20th, '20, 11:30


I actually think that AEW (and NXT, to an extent) are actually both doing a medium amount worse than people thought they would
really? i think you had high expectations for both. RAW itself flirts with the "below 2M" line most weeks, and that's THE wrestling show. both AEW and NXT required a change in habit to begin with.
And both are products that had a lot more buzz than Raw and were a lot better than Raw. People thought AEW and NXT would bring back lapsed fans/make new fans. Neither appears to have done so.
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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 20th, '20, 23:02

cero2k wrote:
Feb 20th, '20, 14:20
XIV wrote:
Feb 20th, '20, 12:17

Yes, they would be, but it would work.

But out of the two companies, only one has a 50 year old World Champion.
of course it would, old people are over, people love nostalgia, but if we're talking that 4/5 year long term where you don't see AEW surviving? I don't see those old people being active or alive, what will the fed do then? Another Lee vs Dijak match?

I mean, Brock ain't no spring chicken either, but hey, at least one champion doesn't miss the shows.
It's only now upon reading this that it occurred to me that in one week's time, the combined age of the world champions of of the four biggest companies in North America will be 192 (Brock, Jericho, PCO, Ultimo Guerrero).
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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by XIV » Feb 21st, '20, 01:57

Big Red Machine wrote:
Feb 20th, '20, 22:57
cero2k wrote:
Feb 20th, '20, 14:17
Big Red Machine wrote:
Feb 20th, '20, 11:30


I actually think that AEW (and NXT, to an extent) are actually both doing a medium amount worse than people thought they would
really? i think you had high expectations for both. RAW itself flirts with the "below 2M" line most weeks, and that's THE wrestling show. both AEW and NXT required a change in habit to begin with.
And both are products that had a lot more buzz than Raw and were a lot better than Raw. People thought AEW and NXT would bring back lapsed fans/make new fans. Neither appears to have done so.
This is the thing. I'm not preferring one over the other at this point from an enjoyment perspective. In fact, it seems to go one week AEW is better, the next NXT is better.

In 4 or 5 years, will NXT still exist and still getting viewership? Yes. WWE has the talent pool and the pull to do so.

At this rate AEW does not.
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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by cero2k » Feb 21st, '20, 09:28

Big Red Machine wrote:
Feb 20th, '20, 23:02


It's only now upon reading this that it occurred to me that in one week's time, the combined age of the world champions of of the four biggest companies in North America will be 192 (Brock, Jericho, PCO, Ultimo Guerrero).
aw c'mon, ROH ain't bigger than AAA, nor Impact at this point

but I see your point.

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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by cero2k » Feb 21st, '20, 09:44

XIV wrote:
Feb 21st, '20, 01:57

This is the thing. I'm not preferring one over the other at this point from an enjoyment perspective. In fact, it seems to go one week AEW is better, the next NXT is better.

In 4 or 5 years, will NXT still exist and still getting viewership? Yes. WWE has the talent pool and the pull to do so.

At this rate AEW does not.
Talent pool is infinite if you know how to build up stars. Especially because AEW doesn't shy away from working with other companies instead of trying to buy them out or have them bend the knee.
AEW has build a ton of stars within months, pretty much from scratch and without a school. WWE's roster may be huge, but there are not enough stars there, they don't know how to make stars because it's brand > people there. In 5 years NXT will still be main evented by old man Cole and broken up Ciampa Gargano, while AEW will have already transitioned to many different stars and guys like MJF and Allin and Jungle Boy will be carrying the promotion.

Ciampa is definitely being forced to retired in less than 5 years.

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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by XIV » Feb 23rd, '20, 04:39

cero2k wrote:
Feb 21st, '20, 09:44
XIV wrote:
Feb 21st, '20, 01:57

This is the thing. I'm not preferring one over the other at this point from an enjoyment perspective. In fact, it seems to go one week AEW is better, the next NXT is better.

In 4 or 5 years, will NXT still exist and still getting viewership? Yes. WWE has the talent pool and the pull to do so.

At this rate AEW does not.
Talent pool is infinite if you know how to build up stars. Especially because AEW doesn't shy away from working with other companies instead of trying to buy them out or have them bend the knee.
AEW has build a ton of stars within months, pretty much from scratch and without a school. WWE's roster may be huge, but there are not enough stars there, they don't know how to make stars because it's brand > people there. In 5 years NXT will still be main evented by old man Cole and broken up Ciampa Gargano, while AEW will have already transitioned to many different stars and guys like MJF and Allin and Jungle Boy will be carrying the promotion.

Ciampa is definitely being forced to retired in less than 5 years.
You think AEW has built a ton of stars?

Aside from MJF, please put to me one star that AEW has built?
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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by cero2k » Feb 23rd, '20, 09:57

XIV wrote:
Feb 23rd, '20, 04:39

You think AEW has built a ton of stars?

Aside from MJF, please put to me one star that AEW has built?
Darby Allin. watch this week's show and if you don't think he's a star, you've lost sight of what wrestling is about

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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 23rd, '20, 12:28

cero2k wrote:
Feb 21st, '20, 09:28
Big Red Machine wrote:
Feb 20th, '20, 23:02


It's only now upon reading this that it occurred to me that in one week's time, the combined age of the world champions of of the four biggest companies in North America will be 192 (Brock, Jericho, PCO, Ultimo Guerrero).
aw c'mon, ROH ain't bigger than AAA, nor Impact at this point

but I see your point.
ROH is WAY bigger than Impact at this point, based on attention, attendance, number of shows they run, geographic areas in which they run, etc.

While they might not be bigger than AAA, they're certainly more relevant and probably have more viewers. When was he last time AAA mattered other than some sort of controversy, sh*t-show, or in-fighting?
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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by cero2k » Feb 23rd, '20, 16:57

Big Red Machine wrote:
Feb 23rd, '20, 12:28
ROH is WAY bigger than Impact at this point, based on attention, attendance, number of shows they run, geographic areas in which they run, etc.

While they might not be bigger than AAA, they're certainly more relevant and probably have more viewers. When was he last time AAA mattered other than some sort of controversy, sh*t-show, or in-fighting?
- Last weekend's AAA Triplemania XXVII drew a 2.89 rating with 1,630,450 million viewers on Azteca 7, according to Lucha Central. It was estimated about 8.2 million viewers checked out TripleMania XXVII at some point during the show.

Attendance (per wikipedia)
15,000 (official)[1]
14,350 (claimed)[1]
Bigger ratings than WWE. Bigger live attendance than most US shows. They have all the top money making wrestlers in Mexico + Kenny Omega. AAA had some of the best business during 2019 and arguably up there with promotions in the world in terms of product and business. CMLL sucked ass last year.

as for Impact/ROH. ROH may have more attention, but Impact is running tapings + PPVs + Impact Plus specials almost twice a month. ROH "runs" more shows, but there are more 'shows' for Impact. I went to cagematch and searched for 2019 events. ROH = 93. Impact = 100. If Impact's weekly is two hours and ROH's is one, Impact maay have ran more shows altogether last year.
Geographic areas ROH has nothing on Impact, who is going to Mexico and Canada several times a year and running from NYC to Las Vegas and California and Texas. ROH barely leaves the country now and that is usually thanks to NJPW.
Impact BFG2019 drew 5000 attendance. ROH's biggest show Final Battle and I quote "Ticket sales are very weak for the event, only a few hundred were told at last look." per WON.
ROH may be bigger, but it's by a hair, they're not 'WAY' bigger at all.

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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 23rd, '20, 17:31

cero2k wrote:
Feb 23rd, '20, 16:57
Big Red Machine wrote:
Feb 23rd, '20, 12:28
ROH is WAY bigger than Impact at this point, based on attention, attendance, number of shows they run, geographic areas in which they run, etc.

While they might not be bigger than AAA, they're certainly more relevant and probably have more viewers. When was he last time AAA mattered other than some sort of controversy, sh*t-show, or in-fighting?
- Last weekend's AAA Triplemania XXVII drew a 2.89 rating with 1,630,450 million viewers on Azteca 7, according to Lucha Central. It was estimated about 8.2 million viewers checked out TripleMania XXVII at some point during the show.

Attendance (per wikipedia)
15,000 (official)[1]
14,350 (claimed)[1]
Bigger ratings than WWE. Bigger live attendance than most US shows. They have all the top money making wrestlers in Mexico + Kenny Omega. AAA had some of the best business during 2019 and arguably up there with promotions in the world in terms of product and business. CMLL sucked ass last year.
So you're saying that AAA's biggest show of the year drew a higher rating (but not actually more viewers) than a random episode of Raw does domestically? No sh*t. It's TripleMania.
How much money the wrestlers make has nothing to do with how big the promotion is. I'd bet that they have a bigger payroll than NJPW does, too.
cero2k wrote:
Feb 23rd, '20, 16:57
as for Impact/ROH. ROH may have more attention, but Impact is running tapings + PPVs + Impact Plus specials almost twice a month. ROH "runs" more shows, but there are more 'shows' for Impact. I went to cagematch and searched for 2019 events. ROH = 93. Impact = 100. If Impact's weekly is two hours and ROH's is one, Impact maay have ran more shows altogether last year.
Geographic areas ROH has nothing on Impact, who is going to Mexico and Canada several times a year and running from NYC to Las Vegas and California and Texas. ROH barely leaves the country now and that is usually thanks to NJPW.
Impact BFG2019 drew 5000 attendance. ROH's biggest show Final Battle and I quote "Ticket sales are very weak for the event, only a few hundred were told at last look." per WON.
ROH may be bigger, but it's by a hair, they're not 'WAY' bigger at all.
The way you should have searched it is by individual taping dates. TNA ran 52 events last year, including joint shows (counting each unique date as a show, so you don't get credit for taping eight episodes of TV on the same day, and so ROH doens't get double credit for doing dark matches before an Honor Club show or just running an Honor Club show on TV). ROH ran 46, but with a lot fewer joint shows. ROH ran a much more diverse set of places (and especially if you discount joint shows)
ROH ran in Canada, the UK, and Japan, which is more foreign countries than TNA ran in. ROH could have run Mexico, too, but they have a partner there who doesn't like it. TNA ran the US, Canada, and Mexico. They didn't even cross an ocean. ROH crossed two. ROH's biggest show sold out the Garden. You want to credit that to NJPW or The Elite? Fine. How many of those TNA shows did people actually have to pay to attend?
I'll concede that the difference in terms of money isn't as big as I thought, the difference in terms of actual influence, buzz, and perception is gigantic. And ROH is getting more and more buzz and crowds are picking up. TNA needs to do a stunt like put the men's world title on a woman (who is also a douchebag racist) or go gratuitous T&A and accidentally get themselves kicked off of Twitch.
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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by XIV » Feb 23rd, '20, 23:14

cero2k wrote:
Feb 23rd, '20, 09:57
XIV wrote:
Feb 23rd, '20, 04:39

You think AEW has built a ton of stars?

Aside from MJF, please put to me one star that AEW has built?
Darby Allin. watch this week's show and if you don't think he's a star, you've lost sight of what wrestling is about
You know what? I’m not sure I’d quite call him a big star yet but he’s certainly well on the way. I originally hated Darby Allin, didn’t think his gimmick worked, didn’t think he was worth shit, but AEW have used him right, they’ve built him well and now I would say his stock is a lot more now than it was when AEW started.

I will agree on Darby Allin.
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Re: AEW viewership down 12 percent this week, NXT narrows ratings gap

Post by cero2k » Feb 24th, '20, 11:30

Big Red Machine wrote:
Feb 23rd, '20, 17:31
So you're saying that AAA's biggest show of the year drew a higher rating (but not actually more viewers) than a random episode of Raw does domestically? No sh*t. It's TripleMania.
How much money the wrestlers make has nothing to do with how big the promotion is. I'd bet that they have a bigger payroll than NJPW does, too.
Yes shit, Lucha Libre is not a tv industry. Mexicans don't culturally watch tv all day, especially Lucha Libre, like Americans do, and it's still THE WWE, the (US dollar) billionaire corporation. But at the end of the day, ROH has nothing on AAA which is the argument.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Feb 23rd, '20, 17:31
The way you should have searched it is by individual taping dates. TNA ran 52 events last year, including joint shows (counting each unique date as a show, so you don't get credit for taping eight episodes of TV on the same day, and so ROH doens't get double credit for doing dark matches before an Honor Club show or just running an Honor Club show on TV). ROH ran 46, but with a lot fewer joint shows. ROH ran a much more diverse set of places (and especially if you discount joint shows)
ROH ran in Canada, the UK, and Japan, which is more foreign countries than TNA ran in. ROH could have run Mexico, too, but they have a partner there who doesn't like it. TNA ran the US, Canada, and Mexico. They didn't even cross an ocean. ROH crossed two. ROH's biggest show sold out the Garden. You want to credit that to NJPW or The Elite? Fine. How many of those TNA shows did people actually have to pay to attend?
I'll concede that the difference in terms of money isn't as big as I thought, the difference in terms of actual influence, buzz, and perception is gigantic. And ROH is getting more and more buzz and crowds are picking up. TNA needs to do a stunt like put the men's world title on a woman (who is also a douchebag racist) or go gratuitous T&A and accidentally get themselves kicked off of Twitch.
Everyone is paying for their Impact tickets, they've been selling out most shows.
the perception of ROH up until a month ago was that ROH was the worst promotion in the US. This year their Japan tour was cancelled and they haven't announced anything for Canada, whereas Impact is hinting that they're doing UK this year again. ROH's only noise is putting their title on an old freak and whether Scurll is leaving, oh yeah, and how terrible they manage contracts and their women's division.

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