Day-to-Day Quote Topic

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Big Red Machine
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 18th, '20, 17:18

cero2k wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 14:01
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 16th, '20, 15:48
They had the documentaries and they were putting them out on Social Media. They were doing a lot of the YouTube stuff first (remember that Jimmy Jacobs coming to EVOLVE teaser video?). I'll agree that their promoting wasn't the best, but it was no worse than ROH's or CZW's.

The thing with Dave is the way Dave talked PWG up. You can't tell me you don't think that drove DVD sales up for them, with Dave putting out LIVE ratings (which he never did for anyone else; he'd always wait to watch a show back on tape) so that there is "OMG EVERYTHING WAS SO AWESOME" buzz for weeks before the show. Every PWG show got a big write-up in the Observer, complete with star ratings, like it was a PPV. ROH only got that for PPVs and maybe Mania weekend. EVOLVE, CZW, CHIKARA, and so many others never got it, despite being bigger and more influential than PWG who were just doing super-indy sh*t with basically no storylines. Dave spending the six hours a month to watch EVOLVE and then write about it in his newsletter would have brought some spotlight to the product and could have convinced people to at least give it a try, but he never did. And for a guy who is supposed to be the wrestling journalist, there is no excuse to not cover promotions as big as EVOLVE and CHIKARA were at that point.
ROH had word of mouth mostly, and it was mostly because TNA had a lot of their guys, and WWE started picking up guys like Punk. I don't think CZW has ever been popular at all, aside from people hearing that someone died or almost died.
CZW had a lot of good guys for a while in the mid-2000s (it's mostly the crew you'd expect, Steen, Generico, Hero, Super Dragon, Quack, Kingston, Claudio, Roddy, Ruckus, and also Sonjay Dutt). Yeah, the early days were just blood and guts, but things changed a bit when they started booking Red and his crew (Maximos, Brian XL) there were a few years in the mid 2007s where they had a lot of good stuff, and it was mostly the booking holding them back (other than when Mike Burns was booking).
cero2k wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 14:01
Dave raving about PWG helped, as did Sofia Vergara and Ronda Rousey going to the show, but Dave wasn't there from the beginning, you and I have followed PWG longer than Dave has; Dave wasn't working for Super Dragon to talk nice about the show or anything, being there is really awesome. PWG just happens to be the promotion that he goes with his friends, and you and i can agree that PWG had some awesome years. If Dave lived in Chicago, maybe he go watch EVOLVE or AAW, or maybe he'd go watch DEFY if he lived near Seattle, but he goes to PWG cuz it's what's close and his friends go to.
The same argument you say about EVOLVE, I can say it for 10 other more relevant promotions around the world, so why EVOLVE, if they weren't even making noise? It's not like PWG was running weekly shows either, it's a big piece every other month, it doesn't really take time away from other promotions.
I completely agree with this. I just think it's a shame that he wastes his time watching UFC undercards and NJPW "Road to..." shows instead of watching EVOLVE, AAW, Beyond, All Japan, NXT UK, wXw PROGRESS, etc. The dude should know that 90% of the matches on the "Road to..." shows are intentionally meh and only the main events even have a chance at being good, and that his time is better spent on other promotions.
cero2k wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 14:01
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 16th, '20, 15:48
Do we know that the Network promise was ever actually made, or was that just internet speculation. It's not just EVOLVE with that one, either. We've been hearing rumors for YEARS about PROGRESS, ICW, and EVOLVE (and, to a lesser extent, OTT and wXw) and aside from the one EVOLVE show last summer, it has never happened.

We don't even know that they promised to help EVOLVE grow. Why would they want EVOLVE to grow that much if they're taking NXT on tour, and when EVOLVE runs a lot of shows in Florida, which would make them competition with the NXT B loop? A much more likely scenario to me is that they promised to help EVOLVE merely stay alive, like with ECW, and Gabe has now come to the point where he's making the same decision that Heyman did in 2001 and Cornette did in 1995 where it's just not worth the effort and stress to continue.
I do feel confident to say that the plan was there at one point, I used to get a ton of surveys about it when I was still subbed to their survey list, and you're right, ICW and PROGRESS got that offer too, and neither are doing particularly good either.

Except that it's been YEARS of those WWE surveys, and nothing has ever happened with any of it. Not just the "other promotions" stuff, but a lot of the changes, too. We're only getting a tiered WWE Network now, and that has been on their list for years.

I feel like that "we'll put you on the Network" stuff was all just speculation, and people bought into it primarily because it makes a hell of a lot of sense, but if it hasn't happened in the five years since those rumors first started flowing, I'm skeptical it was ever an actual promise.

cero2k wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 14:01
Why would Gabe join WWE if he wasn't thinking that the future looks like growth? WWE had to paint a good enough picture to Gabe to argue signing up with them. They were not going to allow EVOLVE to be bigger than NXT of course, but surely the plan was to help EVOLVE grow over ROH and PWG.
Even if 'staying alive' was the promise, they still failed EVOLVE if they indeed never come back from the hiatus.
Because Gabe wanted money that he could use to keep the promotion alive.

If EVOLVE comes back, we'll see. Apparently the issue is that they were betting a lot of stuff on Mania weekend and used a lot of fly-ins and haven't been able to get their money back. Maybe WWE will help them out. Hell... maybe WWE will just turn EVOLVE into their NXT house show circuit if the rumors of WWE cutting house-shows post-COVID are true. If EVOLVE was holding steady with WWE's help and then die because of COVID, that's not WWE's fault.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Jun 18th, '20, 18:15

Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 17:18
CZW had a lot of good guys for a while in the mid-2000s (it's mostly the crew you'd expect, Steen, Generico, Hero, Super Dragon, Quack, Kingston, Claudio, Roddy, Ruckus, and also Sonjay Dutt). Yeah, the early days were just blood and guts, but things changed a bit when they started booking Red and his crew (Maximos, Brian XL) there were a few years in the mid 2007s where they had a lot of good stuff, and it was mostly the booking holding them back (other than when Mike Burns was booking).
of course they did, but talk about judging a whole promotion out of a 'style'. No one paid attention to the Adam Coles because of the Zandigs and Danny Havocs of CZW. More people talked about what happened at Tournament of Death rather than Best of the Best.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 17:18
I completely agree with this. I just think it's a shame that he wastes his time watching UFC undercards and NJPW "Road to..." shows instead of watching EVOLVE, AAW, Beyond, All Japan, NXT UK, wXw PROGRESS, etc. The dude should know that 90% of the matches on the "Road to..." shows are intentionally meh and only the main events even have a chance at being good, and that his time is better spent on other promotions.
I'd with he saw more of all that instead of RAW and Smackdown, but he watches what I guess people pay him to watch. You have no idea how many text messages and mailbag things i send to Alvarez and Dave about Impact to try and get them to talk about it. They just won't shut up about WWE.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 17:18
Except that it's been YEARS of those WWE surveys, and nothing has ever happened with any of it. Not just the "other promotions" stuff, but a lot of the changes, too. We're only getting a tiered WWE Network now, and that has been on their list for years.

I feel like that "we'll put you on the Network" stuff was all just speculation, and people bought into it primarily because it makes a hell of a lot of sense, but if it hasn't happened in the five years since those rumors first started flowing, I'm skeptical it was ever an actual promise.
you talk like WWE is one to keep promises. They can't even keep consistent stories and booked cards straight.

Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 17:18
If EVOLVE comes back, we'll see. Apparently the issue is that they were betting a lot of stuff on Mania weekend and used a lot of fly-ins and haven't been able to get their money back. Maybe WWE will help them out. Hell... maybe WWE will just turn EVOLVE into their NXT house show circuit if the rumors of WWE cutting house-shows post-COVID are true. If EVOLVE was holding steady with WWE's help and then die because of COVID, that's not WWE's fault.
EVOLVE was almost an NXT house show at the end either way. If EVOLVE closes because of COVID-19, it's not directly WWE's fault, I've accepted that, but I do find it shitty that if there was an understanding of working together, WWE won't give them a hand to come back full force once it's all good for them to come back. It's hard for me to see anything other than WWE flirted with them, used them for their ploys, and once they were of little use, they tossed them to the curb. Gabe and EVOLVE have done a lot of the indies in the last two decades, it be a shame if it goes under, it be a shame if Gabe just becomes another writer in the sea of wwe writers doing puke finishes.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 18th, '20, 18:45

cero2k wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 18:15
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 17:18
CZW had a lot of good guys for a while in the mid-2000s (it's mostly the crew you'd expect, Steen, Generico, Hero, Super Dragon, Quack, Kingston, Claudio, Roddy, Ruckus, and also Sonjay Dutt). Yeah, the early days were just blood and guts, but things changed a bit when they started booking Red and his crew (Maximos, Brian XL) there were a few years in the mid 2007s where they had a lot of good stuff, and it was mostly the booking holding them back (other than when Mike Burns was booking).
of course they did, but talk about judging a whole promotion out of a 'style'. No one paid attention to the Adam Coles because of the Zandigs and Danny Havocs of CZW. More people talked about what happened at Tournament of Death rather than Best of the Best.
BOTB would always get some press. But I think ROH existing was part of the issue there. IWA-MS managed to get press for both.
cero2k wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 18:15
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 17:18
I completely agree with this. I just think it's a shame that he wastes his time watching UFC undercards and NJPW "Road to..." shows instead of watching EVOLVE, AAW, Beyond, All Japan, NXT UK, wXw PROGRESS, etc. The dude should know that 90% of the matches on the "Road to..." shows are intentionally meh and only the main events even have a chance at being good, and that his time is better spent on other promotions.
I'd with he saw more of all that instead of RAW and Smackdown, but he watches what I guess people pay him to watch. You have no idea how many text messages and mailbag things i send to Alvarez and Dave about Impact to try and get them to talk about it. They just won't shut up about WWE.
I get the WWE thing because they are the biggest and the one making the most news. It's not like Dave is talking about Main Event every week.
They're also probably the easiest to cover due to being public and due to Dave and Bryan having established networks of sources there.
cero2k wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 18:15
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 17:18
Except that it's been YEARS of those WWE surveys, and nothing has ever happened with any of it. Not just the "other promotions" stuff, but a lot of the changes, too. We're only getting a tiered WWE Network now, and that has been on their list for years.

I feel like that "we'll put you on the Network" stuff was all just speculation, and people bought into it primarily because it makes a hell of a lot of sense, but if it hasn't happened in the five years since those rumors first started flowing, I'm skeptical it was ever an actual promise.
you talk like WWE is one to keep promises. They can't even keep consistent stories and booked cards straight.
I'm saying there is no evidence it was ever a promise, and I don't even think Dave/Wade/Bryan/PWInsider/whoever ever reproted it as being one.

cero2k wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 18:15
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 18th, '20, 17:18
If EVOLVE comes back, we'll see. Apparently the issue is that they were betting a lot of stuff on Mania weekend and used a lot of fly-ins and haven't been able to get their money back. Maybe WWE will help them out. Hell... maybe WWE will just turn EVOLVE into their NXT house show circuit if the rumors of WWE cutting house-shows post-COVID are true. If EVOLVE was holding steady with WWE's help and then die because of COVID, that's not WWE's fault.
EVOLVE was almost an NXT house show at the end either way. If EVOLVE closes because of COVID-19, it's not directly WWE's fault, I've accepted that, but I do find it shitty that if there was an understanding of working together, WWE won't give them a hand to come back full force once it's all good for them to come back. It's hard for me to see anything other than WWE flirted with them, used them for their ploys, and once they were of little use, they tossed them to the curb. Gabe and EVOLVE have done a lot of the indies in the last two decades, it be a shame if it goes under, it be a shame if Gabe just becomes another writer in the sea of wwe writers doing puke finishes.
It was a specialized NXT house show loop for some select people who they seemed to want to give a different type of experience to.
I don't think Gabe will become "just another writer" because he'd be a Triple H guy. Hunter protects his dudes by giving them tasks they're good at. If Gabe is ever booking the main roster, Vince and Dunn will be gone and Hunter will be in charge.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Jun 19th, '20, 21:13

This is from today, idk the promotion

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 24th, '20, 19:23

Shots fired.


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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Jun 24th, '20, 21:25

Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 24th, '20, 19:23
Shots fired.


I'm 99% sure this is part of the storyline to get Rated RKO together versus Ciampa/???. I want to believe that Edge is not that oblivious that superkicks were the thing people complained about that match. Match that actually got good reviews by most people.

ALSO, no way neither Edge or Orton could pull off either number of Superkicks or dives anyway
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 24th, '20, 21:34

cero2k wrote:
Jun 24th, '20, 21:25
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 24th, '20, 19:23
Shots fired.


I'm 99% sure this is part of the storyline to get Rated RKO together versus Ciampa/???. I want to believe that Edge is not that oblivious that superkicks were the thing people complained about that match. Match that actually got good reviews by most people.

ALSO, no way neither Edge or Orton could pull off either number of Superkicks or dives anyway
I just don't see any way the plan is to get Rated RKO back together. It makes so sense on several levels (first and foremost that no one is going to boo Edge at this point, especially coming back from another big injury).
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Jun 24th, '20, 21:41

Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 24th, '20, 21:34

I just don't see any way the plan is to get Rated RKO back together. It makes so sense on several levels (first and foremost that no one is going to boo Edge at this point, especially coming back from another big injury).
i don't think the plan is for a heel RatedRKO. I've just been hearing a lot of rumors of plans for Edge and RatedRKO, but idk what's gonna happen.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Jun 25th, '20, 09:15

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Jun 25th, '20, 09:28

https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/wwe- ... fans-first


Speaking on Sports Hiatus conference call discussing Syncing Sponsorship Value with the Return of Live Action, WWE EVP of Global Head of Sales and Partnerships John Brody commented on WWE's decision to keep running live events during the pandemic.

"The health and safety of our superstars is first and foremost paramount. It comes down to leadership in many ways. Our leader [Vince McMahon] believes we have a social responsibility to put fans first and to help them get a break from what was coming and what we're in the midst of. We have a responsibility to take them away for a few hours and give them a smile and a chance to feel something other than what they're watching, which is also important, on the news. We leaned in to say 'we're going to put fans first' and do everything we can, working with state, local, and federal officials to make sure it's safe for our most important resource, the WWE superstars, and we're going to do whatever we can to deliver content for our partners and our fans," he said.

Brody went on to say that WWE ran from a closed set with essential personnel.

He continued, "We understand the decision other sports made, we wouldn't have made the decision we made if we didn't think we could do it safely for our internal (staff) and for all those affected, but we felt America needed it and needed the 'pick me up.'"

He called pulling off WrestleMania was "superhuman" and that WWE communicated with broadcast partners and sponsors, who were all happy they were able to deliver content.




Our Leader
shit has become a cult in there
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 25th, '20, 09:50

cero2k wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 09:28
https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/wwe- ... fans-first


"The health and safety of our superstars is first and foremost paramount. It comes down to leadership in many ways. Our leader [Vince McMahon] believes we have a social responsibility to put fans first[/i and to help them get a break from what was coming and what we're in the midst of.


Two things cannot come first! Do these people even think before they speak?
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by KILLdozer » Jun 25th, '20, 13:01

They're not heroe. They're maniacs.
When they come, they'll come at what you love.

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Jun 25th, '20, 13:41

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 25th, '20, 14:24

cero2k wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 13:41
"Or maybe I should say..." what? That's an odd way to end a statement.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Jun 26th, '20, 22:02

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Bob-O » Jun 27th, '20, 15:44

cero2k wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 09:28
Our leader [Vince McMahon] believes we have a social responsibility to put fans first and to help them get a break
"Taking a break" is from anything is literally the most irresponsible thing you can do!
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 28th, '20, 09:59

An interesting little stat:

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by KILLdozer » Jun 28th, '20, 11:45

Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 28th, '20, 09:59
An interesting little stat:

And it's somehow run it's course lol.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 29th, '20, 19:56

Meltzer wrote:Jeff Jarrett's lawsuit against Impact Wrestling and Anthem is scheduled to go to trial tomorrow. Jarrett had given Impact the rights to use his Global Force Wrestling tapes while he worked for the company, but felt that once he was no longer with the company, they had no rights to the tapes. Impact, which had the master tapes, had deleted them.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how Jeff has any sort of case here.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Jun 30th, '20, 08:04

Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 29th, '20, 19:56
Meltzer wrote:Jeff Jarrett's lawsuit against Impact Wrestling and Anthem is scheduled to go to trial tomorrow. Jarrett had given Impact the rights to use his Global Force Wrestling tapes while he worked for the company, but felt that once he was no longer with the company, they had no rights to the tapes. Impact, which had the master tapes, had deleted them.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how Jeff has any sort of case here.
neither do I, it's at the end, Jarrett's stupidity to give out the one and only copy of the shows and not keeping a copy
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