Day-to-Day Quote Topic

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Aug 7th, '20, 12:18

Big Red Machine wrote:
Aug 6th, '20, 18:59

1. They had no idea how long this would last or how things would turn out. They (and AEW) are lucky that the Governor of Florida decided not to just shut them down. As a result, they acted in a self-preservationist, conservative manner. That's their right.

2. This idea that these people fired to "make profit" is true, yes, but I think a much better characterization of it is that these people were fired because the company thought firing them was going to be necessary to them staying afloat long-term. Or even if they didn't think it was necessary, they knew their was a possibility that it would be, so they took this safeguarding action. That is not only their right, but it is part of their fiduciary duty to their stockholders.

3. You are assuming that they already had these projections in place when they fired everyone, but that's pretty clearly not true, and here's why. They said the reason they beat these projections by so much was not doing the live tapings and taping in blocks. They started doing that AFTER the massive round of cuts started.
1. Everyone smart enough knew that this wasn't a 3 month thing, but I give you the benefit of the doubt since WWE did show that they were completely incompetent and stupid, not knowing that testing is a MUST. So maybe they are stupid enough to not understand the situation. Also, it wasn't luck, WWE bribed the governor or Florida, did you forget that DeSantis helped the McMahons on the same day that a super PAC run by Linda McMahon announced it’s pouring money into Florida??
source: https://www.vox.com/2020/4/15/21221948/ ... oronavirus

2. I'm sorry, but WWE 'staying afloat' is just a weak rhetoric and excuse. A company that has projections of $10-12 MILLION DOLLARS and manages to surpass it by 400% is not a company trying to 'stay afloat'. That's just a greedy company. You want to tell me that Vince is a senile insecure man, sure, but he's also a greedy sociopath.

3. They did, they fired these people a week before the last financial call, right at the change of the quarter. They knew 100%. They projected $10-12M in profit, a company this size especially, ALWAYS has the projections in place, projections is all they have in their heads all year.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Aug 6th, '20, 18:59
Also, here is a bit from last week's Observer:
Dave Meltzer wrote:
It also should be noted that it was not the cost-cutting of talent salaries that led to the record profits. All main roster talent, and a number of the furloughed and fired employees, were being paid their regular salaries through 7/17. So the $4 million per month savings in that category will likely lead to $12 million more in added profits next quarter.
EXACTLY! They weren't part of the profit this time, and they STILL FIRED THEM! Next quarter, they're gonna profit $60M dollars and you're gonna defend that they needed to 'stay afloat'.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Aug 6th, '20, 18:59
So not only were these savings NOT due to the talent-cutting, but it turns out the big bad greedy corporation was actually doing MORE than it was required to for some of these people. That should but this debate to rest.

But on that last nonte...

4. They actually aren't under any sort of legal obligation to "take care of your employees during hard times." I know it's shocking to hear, but a lot of the time that people lose their jobs through no fault of their own, it's because of "hard times." Mitt Romney aside, rich really don't like firing people. They're not cartoonish villains who subsist off of exercising a power over others simply for it's own sake.
Noblesse oblige is a great thing, but history has proven that simple human nature means that the majority of people who are in the situation to be able to do that sort of thing aren't going to do it without being coerced. If they would, no one would have ever needed to voice the idea of using the coercive power of the state via taxing them more highly to pay for social safety net programs.
4. So you're defending these greedy people under "it's human nature"? No one is saying that rich enjoy or not firing people, I wish they would because then you'd understand, but the truth is that they don't 'don't enjoy' either, they unaffected and THAT is 1000 times worse, because that means that they don't even bat an eye, they're just looking at numbers and profits. THAT is a villain to humanity, that is being a sociopath.

You're trying to encapsulate all of this under 'rights and obligations', and that there is the problem. This isn't a legal debate, it's a moral one. This isn't about that you can and can't do, but about the should or shouldn't you do. This is the problem with rich people, capitalism, greed, all of it, it's always whether you can, not if you should. This planet is literally being destroyed because people like them only care whether they can or can't, but not if they should. This mentality is why this planet is in the shitstorm that it is in. They are the scum of the earth.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 7th, '20, 14:20

cero2k wrote:
Aug 7th, '20, 12:18
Big Red Machine wrote:
Aug 6th, '20, 18:59

1. They had no idea how long this would last or how things would turn out. They (and AEW) are lucky that the Governor of Florida decided not to just shut them down. As a result, they acted in a self-preservationist, conservative manner. That's their right.

2. This idea that these people fired to "make profit" is true, yes, but I think a much better characterization of it is that these people were fired because the company thought firing them was going to be necessary to them staying afloat long-term. Or even if they didn't think it was necessary, they knew their was a possibility that it would be, so they took this safeguarding action. That is not only their right, but it is part of their fiduciary duty to their stockholders.

3. You are assuming that they already had these projections in place when they fired everyone, but that's pretty clearly not true, and here's why. They said the reason they beat these projections by so much was not doing the live tapings and taping in blocks. They started doing that AFTER the massive round of cuts started.
1. Everyone smart enough knew that this wasn't a 3 month thing, but I give you the benefit of the doubt since WWE did show that they were completely incompetent and stupid, not knowing that testing is a MUST. So maybe they are stupid enough to not understand the situation. Also, it wasn't luck, WWE bribed the governor or Florida, did you forget that DeSantis helped the McMahons on the same day that a super PAC run by Linda McMahon announced it’s pouring money into Florida??
source: https://www.vox.com/2020/4/15/21221948/ ... oronavirus
There is a difference between not knowing this was a three-month thing and not knowing how restrictions would work and would change over time.
That's shady, yes, and probably tantamount to bribery (though not legally because the money is going to Trump and not DeSantis).
Also, if you want to talk about incompetence, in the long run, it actually probably hurts DeSantis a lot more than it helps him because the best thing for his political ambitions would be a Trump loss (the opposition party almost always does better in a mid-term year, if Trump wins a second term then Pence becomes the presumptive nominee afterwards, but if he doesn't, then there is a lot room for a guy whose brand is "I can be Trump except that Hispanics like me."

cero2k wrote:
Aug 7th, '20, 12:18
2. I'm sorry, but WWE 'staying afloat' is just a weak rhetoric and excuse. A company that has projections of $10-12 MILLION DOLLARS and manages to surpass it by 400% is not a company trying to 'stay afloat'. That's just a greedy company. You want to tell me that Vince is a senile insecure man, sure, but he's also a greedy sociopath.
Again... the projections were made AFTER talent was let go. that was a volatile week. They thought they were going to have to go live all the time to keep their TV contracts, and as you noted above, they even had a quid pro quo with the governor to ensure they could do that if they needed to.
cero2k wrote:
Aug 7th, '20, 12:18
3. They did, they fired these people a week before the last financial call, right at the change of the quarter. They knew 100%. They projected $10-12M in profit, a company this size especially, ALWAYS has the projections in place, projections is all they have in their heads all year.
Even if you're right (which I'm not sure you are, based on just how much changed over those few months) the Meltzer quote below (which, by the way, you totally ignored) makes the talent cuts basically irrelevant to their profits this quarter.
Again:

Dave Meltzer wrote:
It also should be noted that it was not the cost-cutting of talent salaries that led to the record profits. All main roster talent, and a number of the furloughed and fired employees, were being paid their regular salaries through 7/17. So the $4 million per month savings in that category will likely lead to $12 million more in added profits next quarter.
[/quote]
EXACTLY! They weren't part of the profit this time, and they STILL FIRED THEM! Next quarter, they're gonna profit $60M dollars and you're gonna defend that they needed to 'stay afloat'.
cero2k wrote:
Aug 7th, '20, 12:18
Big Red Machine wrote:
Aug 6th, '20, 18:59
So not only were these savings NOT due to the talent-cutting, but it turns out the big bad greedy corporation was actually doing MORE than it was required to for some of these people. That should but this debate to rest.

But on that last nonte...

4. They actually aren't under any sort of legal obligation to "take care of your employees during hard times." I know it's shocking to hear, but a lot of the time that people lose their jobs through no fault of their own, it's because of "hard times." Mitt Romney aside, rich really don't like firing people. They're not cartoonish villains who subsist off of exercising a power over others simply for it's own sake.
Noblesse oblige is a great thing, but history has proven that simple human nature means that the majority of people who are in the situation to be able to do that sort of thing aren't going to do it without being coerced. If they would, no one would have ever needed to voice the idea of using the coercive power of the state via taxing them more highly to pay for social safety net programs.
4. So you're defending these greedy people under "it's human nature"? No one is saying that rich enjoy or not firing people, I wish they would because then you'd understand, but the truth is that they don't 'don't enjoy' either, they unaffected and THAT is 1000 times worse, because that means that they don't even bat an eye, they're just looking at numbers and profits. THAT is a villain to humanity, that is being a sociopath.
I think you have an insanely cynical view here, and what's more, it just doesn't match up with all of the facts. WWE has a history of paying people a lot of money for A LOT longer than they have needed to (never mind the JTGs of the world- look at things like the Legends deals) and paying for stuff they are under obligation to pay for (like people's rehabs). They also have a long history of doing charity work that stretches far back beyond the time when they developed this obnoxious need to shove their charity work in our faces at every turn. If they(and other companies) were so f*cking greedy, they wouldn't give people severance pay, but they do (and it's not a legal requirement in the US). People are complicated. You can't just pick and choose the facts you want. You have to look at the whole set.
cero2k wrote:
Aug 7th, '20, 12:18
You're trying to encapsulate all of this under 'rights and obligations', and that there is the problem. This isn't a legal debate, it's a moral one. This isn't about that you can and can't do, but about the should or shouldn't you do. This is the problem with rich people, capitalism, greed, all of it, it's always whether you can, not if you should. This planet is literally being destroyed because people like them only care whether they can or can't, but not if they should. This mentality is why this planet is in the shitstorm that it is in. They are the scum of the earth.
You can blame capitalism all you want, but I can't help put notice that every time someone tries socialism it STILL winds up with a bunch of greedy assholes at the top taking all of the money and destroying the environment while everyone else suffers (and no, the Scandinavian countries that people love to point to aren't socialist. They're capitalism countries with large social safety nets). At least in a capitalism democracy there are more checks and balances on these things. Capitalism isn't great, but it's certainly better than the alternatives.
And if you want to blame "people like them" then you need to blame everyone else, too, because unless you're a primitivist living in the woods, you're part of the economy. Logging companies didn't cut down forests for fun; they did it because people needed wood to build things. We didn't start burning coal for fun; we did it because we needed power for electricity for things. You can't go chopping the world into some false dichotomy where people are either the evil 1% who are responsible for all of our problems or the poor, oppressed, saintly masses, who are in no way complicit in anything bad. That's just not reality.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 13th, '20, 20:16

This one came to my attention today:

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 13th, '20, 20:18




So is Kenny implying that him winning the G1 was not the original plan?
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Aug 24th, '20, 13:28

quoting myself, this comes from people messaging WOR and WOL

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Aug 25th, '20, 12:25

it hasn't been a week

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 26th, '20, 20:31

cero2k wrote:
Aug 24th, '20, 13:28
quoting myself, this comes from people messaging WOR and WOL

They're allowed to do it. It's not like these people are paying. If they explained to people what they wanted them to do beforehand, then those people are obligated to follow it or leave.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 26th, '20, 20:31

cero2k wrote:
Aug 25th, '20, 12:25
it hasn't been a week

The Tweet isn't available. What did it say?
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Aug 26th, '20, 21:41

Big Red Machine wrote:
Aug 26th, '20, 20:31


The Tweet isn't available. What did it say?
David Bixenspan's compilation of all the stuff that had leaked itself into the Thunderdome by RAW's time. I'm probably missing some, but among them
- Chris Benoit
- KKK Rally
- "Fire Velveteen Dream" sign
- Pikachu
- a picture of Sonya Deville's stalker
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 26th, '20, 21:57

cero2k wrote:
Aug 26th, '20, 21:41
Big Red Machine wrote:
Aug 26th, '20, 20:31


The Tweet isn't available. What did it say?
David Bixenspan's compilation of all the stuff that had leaked itself into the Thunderdome by RAW's time. I'm probably missing some, but among them
- Chris Benoit
- KKK Rally
- "Fire Velveteen Dream" sign
- Pikachu
- a picture of Sonya Deville's stalker
I figured all of this stuff was inevitable. When I first realized what this was, my first thought was "how long until someone does a Nazi salute?"

This thing was ripe for abuse. I was hoping people would take it in a better direction and start dressing like members of Retribution or something like that, but I figured there would be massive trolling.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Aug 26th, '20, 22:55

Big Red Machine wrote:
Aug 26th, '20, 21:57
cero2k wrote:
Aug 26th, '20, 21:41
Big Red Machine wrote:
Aug 26th, '20, 20:31


The Tweet isn't available. What did it say?
David Bixenspan's compilation of all the stuff that had leaked itself into the Thunderdome by RAW's time. I'm probably missing some, but among them
- Chris Benoit
- KKK Rally
- "Fire Velveteen Dream" sign
- Pikachu
- a picture of Sonya Deville's stalker
I figured all of this stuff was inevitable. When I first realized what this was, my first thought was "how long until someone does a Nazi salute?"

This thing was ripe for abuse. I was hoping people would take it in a better direction and start dressing like members of Retribution or something like that, but I figured there would be massive trolling.
not gonna lie, I expected a penis before any of these, but I'm also not surprised.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 27th, '20, 00:20

cero2k wrote:
Aug 26th, '20, 22:55
Big Red Machine wrote:
Aug 26th, '20, 21:57
cero2k wrote:
Aug 26th, '20, 21:41


David Bixenspan's compilation of all the stuff that had leaked itself into the Thunderdome by RAW's time. I'm probably missing some, but among them
- Chris Benoit
- KKK Rally
- "Fire Velveteen Dream" sign
- Pikachu
- a picture of Sonya Deville's stalker
I figured all of this stuff was inevitable. When I first realized what this was, my first thought was "how long until someone does a Nazi salute?"

This thing was ripe for abuse. I was hoping people would take it in a better direction and start dressing like members of Retribution or something like that, but I figured there would be massive trolling.
not gonna lie, I expected a penis before any of these, but I'm also not surprised.
A picture, or an actual live one?
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Aug 27th, '20, 07:53

Big Red Machine wrote:
Aug 27th, '20, 00:20

A picture, or an actual live one?
haha idk, i guess live one, just someone standing up with no pants
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 31st, '20, 10:37

Someone on one of the PW Torch shows mentioned a rumor that Dragon is booking the IC Title now.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Aug 31st, '20, 17:50

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Sep 2nd, '20, 17:44

This day has been bad







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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 2nd, '20, 19:51

Peyton Royce wrote the following on Instagram: "24 hours removed from this moment & it’s been a rough day. I’m emotionally exhausted, I’m so sad but I realize there is a silver lining. I believe everything happens as it is supposed to. @billiekaywwe & I have been the eyes in the back of each other’s heads for 5+ years. It’s time for us to make some growth as individuals. I know we can do this, it just sucks I won’t have her by my side through all of it. Thank you for bringing me so much happiness, adventure & fun. You are one in a million & you’re so incredibly talented. The whole world knows it!"
Billie Kay also took to Instagram about her run with Royce: “Last night was one of the most emotional nights of my life. Realizing that The IIconics are no more was devastating & heartbreaking. @peytonroycewwe you have been my rock, my strength, my heart & inspired me for the past 5+ years. Having that being taken away is extremely scary... but that’s life. We have to evolve, we have to learn, we have to keep going. I’m so proud of us & excited for what the future holds for us. Even though you won’t be able to see me, I will always be in your corner cheering you on. You’ll always be my high school sweetheart, my life partner, my iconic duo, my icon.”
So it sounds like this was Creative doing something dumb on a whim. It's a wonder New Day have managed to avoid it.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Sep 2nd, '20, 20:23

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 2nd, '20, 19:51


So it sounds like this was Creative doing something dumb on a whim. It's a wonder New Day have managed to avoid it.
I really hoped there was more to the story, but it seems like it's just one of those days Vince wants to break up every team.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 2nd, '20, 21:45

cero2k wrote:
Sep 2nd, '20, 20:23
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 2nd, '20, 19:51


So it sounds like this was Creative doing something dumb on a whim. It's a wonder New Day have managed to avoid it.
I really hoped there was more to the story, but it seems like it's just one of those days Vince wants to break up every team.
I read something from someone (WON, I think) that said that Vince thinks that Bianca Belair and Peyton Royce have the potential to be the next major stars of the women's division, so there is apparently some reason to it, but I think everyone other than Vince is thinking "Peyton Royce? Really?"
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by KILLdozer » Sep 9th, '20, 09:15

I've always heard New Day would "quit before they split up", like legitimately lol.
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