A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

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Big Red Machine
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Re: A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 25th, '20, 08:43

Thelone wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 07:55
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 24th, '20, 18:58
They've been on life-support for a long time, mostly held up by Quack finding Danny Davis-like ways to save cash on everything from the production side, and Quack finding Quack-like ways to save money on the wrestlers side.
I mean yeah, but just because you're a cheap-ass and a carny doesn't mean that you're a monster behind the scenes.
There have been accusations about Quack indoctrinating trainees to make them feel like it's okay to get paid basically nothing to work his shows for years.
I don't doubt that Quack practiced voodoo magic to his trainees so they stay cheap and loyal to him, but it's not like any of those guys amounted to much in the last decade either, which makes you wonder how overrated Quack is as a trainer and how much people like Claudio/Hero/Death Ray/others I'm most likely forgetting actually helped him in the past.
With the shear number of people who have quiet fallings out with him over money every few years, you knew something was going to come out.
Again, I don't really see losing a bunch of people because you're cheap as a sign that something wrong is going on, but the fact that almost no new up-and-comer comes in to replace them kinda does though. It could just mean that your promotion is becoming irrelevant of course (and CHIKARA did fall in that category), but also a toxic backstage environment (like ROH not long ago).
There are also some other stories about Quack, including a rumor that when someone let a female fan into the locker room, Quack anonymously sent the fan a rat with a knife through it (as if she should have known better to not enter the locker room when invited in).
Hero's story about how he was kicked out of CHIKARA also fits the "manipulation" pattern.
And, in hindsight, the way the accusation about the Saturyne affair played into the rumors surrounding the Shutdown in the week or so before the show are probably the first example of gaslighting that I was aware of (I have no doubt that someone of the theories we saw online didn't originate with Quack himself and were spread by the clearly-too-close-to-the-promotion media types like Danielle Mathesson and Brandon Stroud (speaking of recent accusations) at his instruction. That podcast of Danielle's that got all of the attention for publicizing the shut-down theory seemed to disappear pretty quickly after it outlived it's usefulness for that purpose, didn't it?

Not to change the topic here, but during ROH's recent "irrelevant" period, a lot of the guys they brought in actually have turned out to have some upside. I still haven't gotten around to watching the three matches i need to do update my world title reigns ranking thread, but I have seen all of Taven's defenses and I'm pretty sure it's going to wind up in the top half, which is absolutely not what anyone expected going in, and that's not just because it's being padded by the recent short reigns of Rush and PCO, and Jerry Lynn-like short reign of Daniels (and the sh*t reign of Cody).
Shane Taylor has turned out to be pretty darn good, The Bouncers vs. Marseglia and O'Ryan feud last year was actually really damn good, and even Vinny Marseglia started to be an almost enjoyable character once Taven was out of the Kingdom. Maybe Delirious had a better eye for talent than we all gave him credit for.
That being said, he still utterly failed to capitalize on several fantastic talents over the previous few years (Jay White, Lio Rush, Dijak, Cedric, Sydal, ACH, and I'm sure I'm missing some others), but some of the guys he brought in have turned out to be pretty decent role-players (or, in the case of Taven, more than that). And it's not like guys with names weren't coming to ROH at that point (we got Kenny King back and Gresham came in, Sabin was used well when he was healthy, etc). Delirious' issues seemed to be more with utilizing his talent than anything else. Some people stayed away from ROH during that time because of it (Ethan Page immediately comes to mind), but I don't think it's fair to call ROH "irrelevant" during that period. That time of irrelevance was the time when Bullet Club was huge, and it's not long after Bullet Club leaves that we get the influx of big names like Brody King, PCO, Rush, Dragon Lee, Bandido, Tracy Williams, Mark Haskins, etc. Delirious is a pretty poor storyteller, but he did bring in a chunk of the names that set up the groundwork for the so far promising Marty Scurll booking run, and 2019 was a pretty darn good year for ROH.
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Re: A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

Post by cero2k » Jun 25th, '20, 10:26

Thelone wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 07:55

I don't doubt that Quack practiced voodoo magic to his trainees so they stay cheap and loyal to him, but it's not like any of those guys amounted to much in the last decade either, which makes you wonder how overrated Quack is as a trainer and how much people like Claudio/Hero/Death Ray/others I'm most likely forgetting actually helped him in the past.
There's definitely something there, I can understand staying when CHIKARA was big, doing Joshi shows, King of Trios with people all over the world, but after their return, there had to be something. I don't know if he was holding them by the balls because a lot of them are masked, he owns the gimmicks, and no one knows them underneath the mask. I don't know if he was offering trainer spots (most people who had the tools to leave, eventually became trainers instead), if he has dirt on some (see Icarus), or he just straight up used his charisma to keep them.
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Re: A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 25th, '20, 11:45

cero2k wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 10:26
Thelone wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 07:55

I don't doubt that Quack practiced voodoo magic to his trainees so they stay cheap and loyal to him, but it's not like any of those guys amounted to much in the last decade either, which makes you wonder how overrated Quack is as a trainer and how much people like Claudio/Hero/Death Ray/others I'm most likely forgetting actually helped him in the past.
There's definitely something there, I can understand staying when CHIKARA was big, doing Joshi shows, King of Trios with people all over the world, but after their return, there had to be something. I don't know if he was holding them by the balls because a lot of them are masked, he owns the gimmicks, and no one knows them underneath the mask. I don't know if he was offering trainer spots (most people who had the tools to leave, eventually became trainers instead), if he has dirt on some (see Icarus), or he just straight up used his charisma to keep them.
1. Apparently one of the big issues that caused the shut-down was that JoshiMania lost A LOT of money.
2. They did continue to bring in a lot of international fly-ins for King of Trios after the shut-down. They just tended to be Brits and Joshis instead of (Mexican) Luchadors and Japanese men.
3. It's probably a combination of offering the trainer spots for additional money, and charisma/talk of loyalty. I'm still amazed that nothing about the Secret Season ever got out, even though it happened in the days of the internet where you can easily post things anonymously.
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Re: A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 25th, '20, 12:15

Thelone wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 07:55

I don't doubt that Quack practiced voodoo magic to his trainees so they stay cheap and loyal to him, but it's not like any of those guys amounted to much in the last decade either, which makes you wonder how overrated Quack is as a trainer and how much people like Claudio/Hero/Death Ray/others I'm most likely forgetting actually helped him in the past.
I really would love to know how much of this is an ability thing and how much of it is losing their love for the business due to whatever was going on behind the scenes.
Per Wikipedia, the only trainers have been:
Quack, Reckless Youth, Hero, Skayde, Claudio, Hallowicked, Icarus, Fire Ant, JFDC, and Ophidian.

It's hard to tell who got most of their training where nowadays, as the internet will often record anything has having been trained by someone, and some people just don't talk about their training very much, or go to three different places to learn different things. That being said, of the guys who leap out to me as "CHIKARA" guys, the only ones who have really seemed to be big anywhere else are:
Kingston
Donst
Gulak
Tracy Williams
(Oh, and Fire Ant, I guess, though that's more for his goofball bullsh*t than his work. He's a great worker. I just wish he had a gimmick where he got to show it on a regular basis)

Even guys like Jigsaw, Gran Akuma, and Hallowicked who had the talent and did go other places never seemed to stick around for long, and always wound up back in CHIKARA. Others who looked like they might be about to get runs elsewhere (Blaster McMassive) seemed to flame out. Others who seemed to have the talent (Amasis, Ophidian, Frightmare, Dasher, Touchdown, Icarus) never really went anywhere.
Looking back, a lot of the people we think of as "CHIKARA guys" who went on to have success elsewhere were actually trained elsewhere (Claudio, Sweeney, Brodie Lee, Kimber Lee, Chuck Taylor).
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Re: A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

Post by cero2k » Jun 25th, '20, 12:21

Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 11:45

1. Apparently one of the big issues that caused the shut-down was that JoshiMania lost A LOT of money.
2. They did continue to bring in a lot of international fly-ins for King of Trios after the shut-down. They just tended to be Brits and Joshis instead of (Mexican) Luchadors and Japanese men.
100% the joshis were a big part of CHIKARA's bad finances.
I always got the impression that for the latter years, CHIKARA wasn't exactly doing big expenses in flying in people, that they were mostly guys that were coming to the US to try and break in, sharing expenses with other promotions, etc. Prior to that, with the Joshi, Quack was literally the only one using most of them via contract or whatever, but I find it incredible that for instance, in the 3 years that she came to CHIKARA, not SHIMMER, not WSU, no one was able to book Toyota.
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Re: A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 25th, '20, 12:30

cero2k wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 12:21
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 11:45

1. Apparently one of the big issues that caused the shut-down was that JoshiMania lost A LOT of money.
2. They did continue to bring in a lot of international fly-ins for King of Trios after the shut-down. They just tended to be Brits and Joshis instead of (Mexican) Luchadors and Japanese men.
100% the joshis were a big part of CHIKARA's bad finances.
I always got the impression that for the latter years, CHIKARA wasn't exactly doing big expenses in flying in people, that they were mostly guys that were coming to the US to try and break in, sharing expenses with other promotions, etc. Prior to that, with the Joshi, Quack was literally the only one using most of them via contract or whatever, but I find it incredible that for instance, in the 3 years that she came to CHIKARA, not SHIMMER, not WSU, no one was able to book Toyota.
The last few years, absolutely, but as recently as 2016 they were using a lot of fly-ins, and in 2017 they flew all of their guys to the UK for it.
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Re: A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

Post by cero2k » Jun 25th, '20, 12:43

Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 12:30


The last few years, absolutely, but as recently as 2016 they were using a lot of fly-ins, and in 2017 they flew all of their guys to the UK for it.
true, probably still riding on some saved up money and good grace of the industry. They managed to afford The Bucks and Styles on 2015. But he didn't fly in Andrews and Dunne, they were here by themselves for 2014. The AAA team from 2015 were the guys doing LU tapings so they were already here. The joshi teams from 2016 he definitely had to fly in and looking at that tournament, you know he couldn't help himself and wanted to bring joshis back.
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Re: A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 25th, '20, 12:53

cero2k wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 12:43
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 12:30


The last few years, absolutely, but as recently as 2016 they were using a lot of fly-ins, and in 2017 they flew all of their guys to the UK for it.
true, probably still riding on some saved up money and good grace of the industry. They managed to afford The Bucks and Styles on 2015. But he didn't fly in Andrews and Dunne, they were here by themselves for 2014. The AAA team from 2015 were the guys doing LU tapings so they were already here. The joshi teams from 2016 he definitely had to fly in and looking at that tournament, you know he couldn't help himself and wanted to bring joshis back.
Those guys were "already here," but none of them were in the Northeast (other than maybe Andrews and Dunne). The Bucks are based in California, as I assume, the LU guys would be while in the US (or maybe they were in Texas at that point). AJ is based in Gainsville. Quack still would have had to pay to fly them in, and also would have had to pay their booking fees, which were probably a hell of a lot higher than using local guys would have been.
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Re: A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

Post by cero2k » Jun 25th, '20, 13:24

Big Red Machine wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 12:53

Those guys were "already here," but none of them were in the Northeast (other than maybe Andrews and Dunne). The Bucks are based in California, as I assume, the LU guys would be while in the US (or maybe they were in Texas at that point). AJ is based in Gainsville. Quack still would have had to pay to fly them in, and also would have had to pay their booking fees, which were probably a hell of a lot higher than using local guys would have been.
not saying they were free to bring in, but it's not the same expense to fly in people from California than England, nor having to pay for work visas if he even did that
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Re: A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 25th, '20, 14:21

cero2k wrote:
Jun 25th, '20, 13:24

nor having to pay for work visas if he even did that
Paying for a work visa? LOL. This is indy wrestling.
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Re: A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

Post by cero2k » Jun 26th, '20, 12:38

Finally, Ligero and Travis Banks have been fired from WWE.
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Re: A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 26th, '20, 12:51

cero2k wrote:
Jun 26th, '20, 12:38
Finally, Ligero and Travis Banks have been fired from WWE.
I read this too quickly and started to wonder what Finlay had done.
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Re: A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

Post by Big Red Machine » Jul 7th, '20, 22:40

Joseph Currier wrote:After Kelly Klein tweeted alleging that “MULTIPLE women brought complaints & evidence of sexual misconduct/harassment by Jay Lethal. ROH ignored/covered it up. They only take action when convenient,” Lethal posted a statement yesterday: “It has always been my choice to use silence to keep my dignity, refrain from publicly attacking people I’m not fond of, and relying on who I have been as a person to speak for itself. I’ve also never wanted to use MY platform to boost or give attention to any negativity. I do however know and realize that some people will sadly take my silence to mean something else. The #speakingout movement has given me hope that the industry that I’ve chosen to give my life to will become a better place. I’ve wanted to stand in support of all those brave enough to share their painful stories. Unfortunately I was afraid to due to the lies that are being said about me. I have never and would never sexually harass, sexually assault, rape or force myself on anyone. I would never use my status to deny anyone opportunities. Even now, it pains me to know that defending myself might somehow tarnish an important movement and cast doubt on real, troubling experiences.”
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Re: A definitive list of everyone who's been accused of sexual assault so far.

Post by Big Red Machine » Jul 19th, '20, 15:12

Joey Ryan has posted an hour-long video on YouTube claiming to refute the allegations against him. Both he and the Saraya Knight are looking into filing lawsuits against the people accusing them of misconduct.
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