More gushing about The Fiend

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More gushing about The Fiend

Post by NWK2000 » Sep 25th, '19, 10:20

Since there's not a Raw review, I figure I'd put my two cents in.

-I'm just learning to appreciate the spotlights/squealing. Gives it that 80s horror vibe that I don't think has been done in wrestling ever. Wrestling has either gone for 30s style monster horror or modern psychopathic horror, so The Fiend stands out to me.

-Braun's verbal selling of The Claw was perfect. Hearing a big dude like that cry out for mercy to sell a move is crazy impactful.
-When Braun stages a comeback dat POP
-Bray's laughing as he applys the claw a second time, is money.

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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by KILLdozer » Sep 25th, '19, 12:26

That, I have to say, unfortunately, was a little off to me. IDC What kind of "Fiend", or monster, beast, or demon he's supposed to be...or maybe just the alter ego of a fuckin' maniac...there's no way he should have been able to just walk in there and overpower Strowman like that with no trouble at all.

At least give him more of a fight and have them battle it out for a minute...all the feats of strength and then just that happens effortlessly? Absolutely not lol.

Again, I love the character work waaaaay more than I actually love the in-ring alternate stuff how they're going with The Fiend.
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by KILLdozer » Sep 25th, '19, 13:48

Again, furtherly, as I said in the last topic, the gimmick work and vignettes surpasses the other side of the in-ring booking of the character. You keep hearing, "The fiend the fiend the fiend.", and AS MUCH AS I ENJOY the Funhouse shit and everything else, it just doesn't really much or seem right to me. It's just like there's not enough explanation or something being put into it...idk. Everyone I'd always pushing it so hard and everything, but something just isn't working with me.
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by Bob-O » Sep 26th, '19, 08:10

KILLdozer wrote:
Sep 25th, '19, 12:26
That, I have to say, unfortunately, was a little off to me. IDC What kind of "Fiend", or monster, beast, or demon he's supposed to be...or maybe just the alter ego of a fuckin' maniac...there's no way he should have been able to just walk in there and overpower Strowman like that with no trouble at all.

At least give him more of a fight and have them battle it out for a minute...all the feats of strength and then just that happens effortlessly? Absolutely not lol.
Don't fault The Fiend for that! I can see being pissed as a Strowman fan, having your guy get taken out like that, but name a better way to make The Fiend look absolutely unstoppable! Besides... and we say it all the time, It's Strowman. Our modern day Big Show will brush this off like it never happened.

A stare-down/face-off would have been really cool, but the nature of this push doesn't allow for that. Giving Strowman, or anyone, even just that second of shine is putting a second of doubt into The Fiend... that "Oooooh... what's gonna happen here?" feeling... get that out of everyone's head, we need to know what's going to happen no matter who it's with. Now we do.

Especially when the match they're building to is with Seth, who was shitting himself and crying in the corner. ANY resistance from Brawn would make us want Fiend vs Brawn instead, and that's not how ya sell a ppv. Fret not for Brawn, he'll be fine.
KILLdozer wrote:
Sep 25th, '19, 13:48
Again, furtherly, as I said in the last topic, the gimmick work and vignettes surpasses the other side of the in-ring booking of the character. You keep hearing, "The fiend the fiend the fiend.", and AS MUCH AS I ENJOY the Funhouse shit and everything else, it just doesn't really much or seem right to me. It's just like there's not enough explanation or something being put into it...idk. Everyone I'd always pushing it so hard and everything, but something just isn't working with me.
That's been my problem too. I think it's the result of Bray being given free reign over The Fun House and The Fiend being written by the writers on to TV. I get a very strong sense of The Funhouse being an original product, and his on screen direction being fan fiction of what somebody else thinks The Fiend should be doing. It's starting to make more sense as it goes on, as Bray's in a position to do The Funhouse knowing what's going to happen on TV... like, foreshadowing the attack on Brawn (not sharing Seth, turning his back on the family)... but taking out Jerry Lawler? C'mon... it just doesn't make sense.

The character we were introduced to was calculated and full of grudges. The character that showed up on screen started taking people out for no reason. Two different types of psycho.
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 26th, '19, 18:15

Bob-O wrote:
Sep 26th, '19, 08:10

KILLdozer wrote:
Sep 25th, '19, 13:48
Again, furtherly, as I said in the last topic, the gimmick work and vignettes surpasses the other side of the in-ring booking of the character. You keep hearing, "The fiend the fiend the fiend.", and AS MUCH AS I ENJOY the Funhouse shit and everything else, it just doesn't really much or seem right to me. It's just like there's not enough explanation or something being put into it...idk. Everyone I'd always pushing it so hard and everything, but something just isn't working with me.
That's been my problem too. I think it's the result of Bray being given free reign over The Fun House and The Fiend being written by the writers on to TV. I get a very strong sense of The Funhouse being an original product, and his on screen direction being fan fiction of what somebody else thinks The Fiend should be doing. It's starting to make more sense as it goes on, as Bray's in a position to do The Funhouse knowing what's going to happen on TV... like, foreshadowing the attack on Brawn (not sharing Seth, turning his back on the family)... but taking out Jerry Lawler? C'mon... it just doesn't make sense.

The character we were introduced to was calculated and full of grudges. The character that showed up on screen started taking people out for no reason. Two different types of psycho.
"Starting to make more sense" is a factual way to put it, but I think there is a major distinction between "now we understand those cryptic things he was saying five months ago," and what has happened here, which is that they have changed the content of Firely Funhouse to stuff that actually lines up with The Fiend's actions. Almost nothing Bray said in the first few months other than the existence of the Fiend has meant anything. And how about the f*cking puppets popping up backstage on Raw? That cannot mesh with any of the "cerebral Bray Wyatt" theories that have been floated over the past few months. That, to me, is clear evidence that either they had no direction in the beginning, or whatever direction they had got changed, both of which are bad because the end result is that that was all just more Bray Wyatt spouting nonsense that they tried to pass off as deep or meaningful or ominous.
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by NWK2000 » Sep 26th, '19, 20:24

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 26th, '19, 18:15
And how about the f*cking puppets popping up backstage on Raw?
This is literally the only problem I have with The Fiend. I wish we could have someone say once and for all if they're posessed, forced to do the puppet work under duress , or paid to enact the conversations Bray imagines. Literally the only reason why the puppets exist is that the whole children's TV aesthetic falls apart if the human host doesn't have fictional characters to work off of. Even then, they could cut it down to Ramblin Rabbit, and maybe also Husky the Pig. and it would work just as well.

Edit: It also occurred to me that the only time the puppets were ever on Raw was pre-FFFH, so maybe we were supposed to think Bray was the puppeteer and then they swerved us with FFFH?
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by KILLdozer » Sep 26th, '19, 20:40

NWK2000 wrote:
Sep 26th, '19, 20:24
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 26th, '19, 18:15
And how about the f*cking puppets popping up backstage on Raw?
This is literally the only problem I have with The Fiend. I wish we could have someone say once and for all if they're posessed, forced to do the puppet work under duress , or paid to enact the conversations Bray imagines. Literally the only reason why the puppets exist is that the whole children's TV aesthetic falls apart if the human host doesn't have fictional characters to work off of. Even then, they could cut it down to Ramblin Rabbit, and maybe also Husky the Pig. and it would work just as well.

Edit: It also occurred to me that the only time the puppets were ever on Raw was pre-FFFH, so maybe we were supposed to think Bray was the puppeteer and then they swerved us with FFFH?
No they were also on Raw and Sd after as well in weird spots unmentioned...
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by KILLdozer » Sep 27th, '19, 10:57

But yeah...I know you're referring to the vignettes when they were shown by themselves, and I'm not sure what we were supposed to think of it all in the beginning, except that it was some Bray Wyatt stuff...
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by KILLdozer » Sep 27th, '19, 11:01

Something I thought of...why did we hear the OLD Bray Wyatt laugh at the end of Raw this week??? Lol.
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by Bob-O » Sep 29th, '19, 11:13

KILLdozer wrote:
Sep 27th, '19, 10:57
But yeah...I know you're referring to the vignettes when they were shown by themselves, and I'm not sure what we were supposed to think of it all in the beginning, except that it was some Bray Wyatt stuff...
I thought that was brilliant. Vague creepy ass puppets, leading to this absurd kids show? It surpassed Brodus Clay coming out as the Funkasaurous for the first time for me in reveals. Nobody saw that coming.
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 29th, '19, 13:14

Bob-O wrote:
Sep 29th, '19, 11:13
KILLdozer wrote:
Sep 27th, '19, 10:57
But yeah...I know you're referring to the vignettes when they were shown by themselves, and I'm not sure what we were supposed to think of it all in the beginning, except that it was some Bray Wyatt stuff...
I thought that was brilliant. Vague creepy ass puppets, leading to this absurd kids show? It surpassed Brodus Clay coming out as the Funkasaurous for the first time for me in reveals. Nobody saw that coming.
Okay... but if it doesn't make sense in the end then it was bad. This isn't some sort of absurdist CHIKARA meets HoodSlam thing. It's a mainstream pro wrestling product.
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by Bob-O » Sep 30th, '19, 05:47

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 29th, '19, 13:14
Okay... but if it doesn't make sense in the end then it was bad. This isn't some sort of absurdist CHIKARA meets HoodSlam thing. It's a mainstream pro wrestling product
I'm not sure what you expecting out of this. Creepy Buzzard puppet is revealed on Raw for foreshadowing and speculation hinting at a Bray Wyatt return. Turns out to be exactly what everyone thought, except nobody expected the Buzzard puppet to be a character on a deranged kids show. Characters from the deranged kids show start showing up in the background on Raw to foreshadow Bray's return to the ring...

It makes as much sense as it needs to, but because nobody ever came right out and said "OK, this is exactly what's happening" people are reading too far into it and are getting disappointed.

It's obvious they changed directions from the original plan (Hurt/Heal Gloves?), but it doesn't make it bad. Like anything else, we just have better ideas!
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by KILLdozer » Sep 30th, '19, 11:38

Yeah, long story short the work being put into the Funhouse shit needs to go into The Fiend as well.
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by Big Red Machine » Oct 1st, '19, 17:46

Bob-O wrote:
Sep 30th, '19, 05:47
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 29th, '19, 13:14
Okay... but if it doesn't make sense in the end then it was bad. This isn't some sort of absurdist CHIKARA meets HoodSlam thing. It's a mainstream pro wrestling product
I'm not sure what you expecting out of this. Creepy Buzzard puppet is revealed on Raw for foreshadowing and speculation hinting at a Bray Wyatt return. Turns out to be exactly what everyone thought, except nobody expected the Buzzard puppet to be a character on a deranged kids show. Characters from the deranged kids show start showing up in the background on Raw to foreshadow Bray's return to the ring...

It makes as much sense as it needs to, but because nobody ever came right out and said "OK, this is exactly what's happening" people are reading too far into it and are getting disappointed.

It's obvious they changed directions from the original plan (Hurt/Heal Gloves?), but it doesn't make it bad. Like anything else, we just have better ideas!
Changing direction from the hurt/heal gloves is the moment this truly died, as without that aspect, he's just f*cking Bray Wyatt, saying cryptic things and using magical powers to affect the lights and teleport... which is exactly what the old Bray was.
My problem is this: If you erased the Firefly Funhouse segments from existence, we still would know the exact same things about Bray/The Fiend and his motivations as we do with them. They don't serve an actual purpose for the story.
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by KILLdozer » Oct 1st, '19, 17:57

Big Red Machine wrote:
Oct 1st, '19, 17:46
Bob-O wrote:
Sep 30th, '19, 05:47
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 29th, '19, 13:14
Okay... but if it doesn't make sense in the end then it was bad. This isn't some sort of absurdist CHIKARA meets HoodSlam thing. It's a mainstream pro wrestling product
I'm not sure what you expecting out of this. Creepy Buzzard puppet is revealed on Raw for foreshadowing and speculation hinting at a Bray Wyatt return. Turns out to be exactly what everyone thought, except nobody expected the Buzzard puppet to be a character on a deranged kids show. Characters from the deranged kids show start showing up in the background on Raw to foreshadow Bray's return to the ring...

It makes as much sense as it needs to, but because nobody ever came right out and said "OK, this is exactly what's happening" people are reading too far into it and are getting disappointed.

It's obvious they changed directions from the original plan (Hurt/Heal Gloves?), but it doesn't make it bad. Like anything else, we just have better ideas!
Changing direction from the hurt/heal gloves is the moment this truly died, as without that aspect, he's just f*cking Bray Wyatt, saying cryptic things and using magical powers to affect the lights and teleport... which is exactly what the old Bray was.
My problem is this: If you erased the Firefly Funhouse segments from existence, we still would know the exact same things about Bray/The Fiend and his motivations as we do with them. They don't serve an actual purpose for the story.
In a way, I can see that. He's just a different form of psychopath now lol.
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by KILLdozer » Oct 1st, '19, 17:59

I need to know more. This Is probably the best way I can put it: The FFFH is fresh and hilarious and wonderfully entertaining, but the fiend is boring and repetitive. Severe lack of substance there and all of their strong attempts at getting over just aren't working.
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by Bob-O » Oct 1st, '19, 19:59

Big Red Machine wrote:
Oct 1st, '19, 17:46
Changing direction from the hurt/heal gloves is the moment this truly died, as without that aspect, he's just f*cking Bray Wyatt, saying cryptic things and using magical powers to affect the lights and teleport... which is exactly what the old Bray was.
Solid point. There was a very big emphasis on how he was a "changed man" in the beginning... he even cut old Bray in half with a chain saw. When you put it like that, I can see why there's issues.
KILLdozer wrote:
Oct 1st, '19, 17:59
I need to know more. This Is probably the best way I can put it: The FFFH is fresh and hilarious and wonderfully entertaining, but the fiend is boring and repetitive. Severe lack of substance there and all of their strong attempts at getting over just aren't working.
I started enjoying it more when I stopped separating the two. Instead of saying "they need to put the same effort they put into FFFH into the Fiend", try looking at everything as effort put into Bray Wyatt. Look at "The Fiend" as just another character on FFFH. Make it all one thing. The Fiend is the physical entity of The Fun House, but it's The Fun House cutting his promos for him. I mean, do you, but it helped me.

As with everything I think we could all agree on very simple changes that would make this so much better, but I also don't think we're being dealt a terrible hand here either. A Full House is only one card away from Four Of A Kind...
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by KILLdozer » Oct 1st, '19, 20:13

Bob-O wrote:
Oct 1st, '19, 19:59
Big Red Machine wrote:
Oct 1st, '19, 17:46
Changing direction from the hurt/heal gloves is the moment this truly died, as without that aspect, he's just f*cking Bray Wyatt, saying cryptic things and using magical powers to affect the lights and teleport... which is exactly what the old Bray was.
Solid point. There was a very big emphasis on how he was a "changed man" in the beginning... he even cut old Bray in half with a chain saw. When you put it like that, I can see why there's issues.
KILLdozer wrote:
Oct 1st, '19, 17:59
I need to know more. This Is probably the best way I can put it: The FFFH is fresh and hilarious and wonderfully entertaining, but the fiend is boring and repetitive. Severe lack of substance there and all of their strong attempts at getting over just aren't working.
I started enjoying it more when I stopped separating the two. Instead of saying "they need to put the same effort they put into FFFH into the Fiend", try looking at everything as effort put into Bray Wyatt. Look at "The Fiend" as just another character on FFFH. Make it all one thing. The Fiend is the physical entity of The Fun House, but it's The Fun House cutting his promos for him. I mean, do you, but it helped me.

As with everything I think we could all agree on very simple changes that would make this so much better, but I also don't think we're being dealt a terrible hand here either. A Full House is only one card away from Four Of A Kind...
I mean you're not wrong because your way of viewing it is actually the truth behind the character presentation...I'd just kinda like to know more about certain things...like wtf's with the puppets?

I'm starting to really think they just, are. Exactly as presented without any incoming hidden meaning. No deeper darker supernatural representation of anything. Just characters on the show and it's going to stay that way until shown otherwise. There's nothing more to "Abby The Witch", than being the puppet named "Abby The Witch. ". And so on and so on.

"Abandon all hope ye who leave here", was just a sign on the door without extra meaning. I think it's time to stop looking for hidden conspiracies and deeper meanings within all of this that simply isn't there or coming at all as of now

And that's not necessarily a bad thing or a knock on it all whatsoever. Just how it all appears to be lining up and THIS is the truth behind the entire act. I'm absolutely not trying to be a downer on anyone's excitement or hopes of this new side of the character and all, but I think this will clear up a lot of questions surrounding the entire thing.

Ramblin' Rabbit is just essentially a fictional character that exists on a televison show so of course he keeps "coming back", because he's almost like a cartoon similar to Tom and Jerry where pain and mortality just don't exist.

There is no mystery trapped inside of a riddle here, nothing to be unearthed in front of our very eyes.

To somewhat echo BRM and elaborate upon what he said in a different manner-none of that shit matters because it's not supposed to. It's all just backdrop for a guy cutting wrestling promos.


NONETHELESS...the shit's hilarious and has given me and still does give me ridiculous laughter...so I'm not assassinating the entire thing at all...just an epiphany that rolled out while responding to the above. 💁‍♀️
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by Big Red Machine » Oct 1st, '19, 20:22

Bob-O wrote:
Oct 1st, '19, 19:59

I started enjoying it more when I stopped separating the two. Instead of saying "they need to put the same effort they put into FFFH into the Fiend", try looking at everything as effort put into Bray Wyatt. Look at "The Fiend" as just another character on FFFH. Make it all one thing. The Fiend is the physical entity of The Fun House, but it's The Fun House cutting his promos for him. I mean, do you, but it helped me.

As with everything I think we could all agree on very simple changes that would make this so much better, but I also don't think we're being dealt a terrible hand here either. A Full House is only one card away from Four Of A Kind...
This IS how I look at it. It wouldn't occur to me to look at it any other way. Which is why I have come to the conclusion that this is the same old Bray Wyatt except with the cryptic nonsense promos replaced with kitsch and the occasional insider comment. None of it means anything and none of it ever did. They've just changed it from nonsense to something smarks can smirk at and suddenly the smarks all like it now.
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Re: More gushing about The Fiend

Post by NWK2000 » Oct 2nd, '19, 08:09

Big Red Machine wrote:
Oct 1st, '19, 20:22


This IS how I look at it. It wouldn't occur to me to look at it any other way. Which is why I have come to the conclusion that this is the same old Bray Wyatt except with the cryptic nonsense promos replaced with kitsch and the occasional insider comment. None of it means anything and none of it ever did. They've just changed it from nonsense to something smarks can smirk at and suddenly the smarks all like it now.
It might be the same Bray Wyatt, but the gimmick has been retooled to incorporate more universally understood elements of horror. Ghouls, mental illness, the unsettling sunny nature of child-oriented iconography (how many times have dolls/nursery rhymes/puppets/children's toys been used as the central theme of a horror movie?) and etc.

To have found the hillbilly cultist creepy, that's a very specific subset of horror that doesn't really click unless you're a fan of Cape Fear or you grew up in a rural area so the iconography of the early Wyatt vignettes hits home.
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