2 Cents: VICE"s Dark Side of Wrestling

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cero2k
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Re: 2 Cents: VICE"s Dark Side of Wrestling

Post by cero2k » May 21st, '20, 16:11

that D'Lo story is awesome


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Big Red Machine
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Re: 2 Cents: VICE"s Dark Side of Wrestling

Post by Big Red Machine » May 24th, '20, 13:42

I've been thinking about this a bit. Is the criticism for "not stopping the show" not stopping it after the fall or after they knew Owen was dead?

And, if it's the former, shouldn't the same criticism be applied to similar incidents that didn't result in death (Droz, Orndorff, Whitmer, Jesse Sorenson)?
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Re: 2 Cents: VICE"s Dark Side of Wrestling

Post by cero2k » May 24th, '20, 16:05

Big Red Machine wrote:
May 24th, '20, 13:42
I've been thinking about this a bit. Is the criticism for "not stopping the show" not stopping it after the fall or after they knew Owen was dead?

And, if it's the former, shouldn't the same criticism be applied to similar incidents that didn't result in death (Droz, Orndorff, Whitmer, Jesse Sorenson)?
I'm pretty sure they knew Owen was dead even before the next match took place, i think WWE only ran some video packages before JRs announcement. I think there's several things here tho, for once, the ones you reference were accidents that took place on match, those sadly, are part of the industry that we've seen over and over. Fans see the accident and they're like fuck that sucked. Same with watching Sid break his leg, it's gruesome, we get worried, but we know that they're alive.

A better comparison would be against cancelling the show with Misawa, Perrito, or Silver King's death. I think some of those were main events, but all those shows called it quits on the spot. I don't think there's no way that fans don't realize that something way more serious is taking place here, but even in those cases, you have the benefit that no one really knows what's going on. With Owen however, people straight up saw a man fall from the rafters of an arena, everyone there knew 100% it was serious, people understand physics and it was definitely not part of the show.

Now, on a perspective outside of wrestling. I don't know who to fault here, but as soon as this happens, this should had become a crime scene or at least something that needed to be investigated. WWE didn't stop the show to go and figure out what happened up there, its like the automatically blamed Owen for his own death, even knowing in this type of stunt, the person hanging shouldn't have any control on the rig (I think this was a thing during the trial btw).
Furthermore, they made the rest of the talent wrestle on a ring mat with Owen's blood, with broken beans, and quite likely, completely mentally shaken.
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Big Red Machine
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Re: 2 Cents: VICE"s Dark Side of Wrestling

Post by Big Red Machine » May 24th, '20, 20:49

cero2k wrote:
May 24th, '20, 16:05
Big Red Machine wrote:
May 24th, '20, 13:42
I've been thinking about this a bit. Is the criticism for "not stopping the show" not stopping it after the fall or after they knew Owen was dead?

And, if it's the former, shouldn't the same criticism be applied to similar incidents that didn't result in death (Droz, Orndorff, Whitmer, Jesse Sorenson)?
I'm pretty sure they knew Owen was dead even before the next match took place, i think WWE only ran some video packages before JRs announcement. I think there's several things here tho, for once, the ones you reference were accidents that took place on match, those sadly, are part of the industry that we've seen over and over. Fans see the accident and they're like fuck that sucked. Same with watching Sid break his leg, it's gruesome, we get worried, but we know that they're alive.

A better comparison would be against cancelling the show with Misawa, Perrito, or Silver King's death. I think some of those were main events, but all those shows called it quits on the spot. I don't think there's no way that fans don't realize that something way more serious is taking place here, but even in those cases, you have the benefit that no one really knows what's going on. With Owen however, people straight up saw a man fall from the rafters of an arena, everyone there knew 100% it was serious, people understand physics and it was definitely not part of the show.

Now, on a perspective outside of wrestling. I don't know who to fault here, but as soon as this happens, this should had become a crime scene or at least something that needed to be investigated. WWE didn't stop the show to go and figure out what happened up there, its like the automatically blamed Owen for his own death, even knowing in this type of stunt, the person hanging shouldn't have any control on the rig (I think this was a thing during the trial btw).
Furthermore, they made the rest of the talent wrestle on a ring mat with Owen's blood, with broken beans, and quite likely, completely mentally shaken.
They did clean the mat after the death, but the mentally shaken thing was pretty clear watching the show.

You make good points, with the "crime scene" one being the most compelling to me.
I chose the guys I did because they were all neck injuries and death or at least paralysis seemed possible at the moment (Hayabusa, too). With an injury like Sid's, we knew it was serious, but also knew he wasn't going to die.

One thing I will say is that in the cases you gave (plus the fourth that immediately sprang to mind for me, which was Gary Albright) all happened AFTER Owen, and the promotions saw how much heat WWF got for not stopping the show right there. After I finish watching Double or Nothing, I'm going to go to the Observer website and see how previous deaths (and preferably ones in the 90s so there is less of a kayfabe thing going on like Plum Mariko, Oro, and Larry Cameron) were handled.
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Re: 2 Cents: VICE"s Dark Side of Wrestling

Post by KILLdozer » May 25th, '20, 15:08

Kayfabe Commentaries "Wrestling's Most Controversial Moments", has an entire shoot debate about if they should have stopped it or not...I'm trying to find it...
When they come, they'll come at what you love.

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