BRM Reviews the 12/11/2019 Dynamite (GREAT!)

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Big Red Machine
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BRM Reviews the 12/11/2019 Dynamite (GREAT!)

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 12th, '19, 21:47

JON MOXLEY vs. A NAMELESS JOBBER (w/his nameless friend)- squash
Not giving jobbers names and entrances is something I had hoped AEW wouldn’t copy from WWE, but no luck. Moxley beat the jobber (I assume this was Alex Reynolds because the guy on the outside was John Silver) in mere moments. He then tossed him to the outside, leading Silver to try to attack him but get laid out with the Death Rider as well.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- meh
The Inner Circle came out and surrounded the ring. Jericho got into the ring and told Moxley he just wanted to have a “conversation.” He noted their history together, starting by claiming that when Moxley first arrived in WWE he went to Jericho and asked how to get over. Jericho mentions their WWE feud in the perfect way, which is to treat it like a serious feud because this is all real.
Jericho tried to recruit Moxley to the Inner Circle. He tells Moxley to take a few weeks to think about it (“not in front of these idiots in Dallas”). This was well-executed, but I just didn’t buy Moxley not responding with an immediate no. It felt like the only reason Moxley didn’t do so was so the story could be stretched out for a few weeks. It doesn’t feel natural.

YOUNG BUCKS VS. POUND & POWERFUL HYPE PACKAGE- great

CODY RHODES & Q.T. MARSHALL vs. THE BUTCHER & THE BLADE (w/the Bunny)- 6.5/10
Tony Schiavone makes a connection between Allie getting her hair cut off by the Nightmare Collective and her turning into this evil “the Bunny.” That seems important.
They showed an inset from MJF wondering exactly what all of us are supposed to be wondering, which is how the hell Cody is going to win with a scrub as his partner. That being said, all this made me think is why MJF didn’t pick Wardlow or a member of the Inner Circle or someone else who they knew would immediately turn on Cody to be Cody’s partner. Also, doesn’t picking Cody’s partner for tonight as offered last week constitute MJF consenting to be booked against Cody?
This was good for what it was, but I think it went a little too long. Q.T. also hit an MJF-like CrossRhodes that looked a lot more devastating than Cody’s. Also… I’m not going to lie: There was a point here when I was certain that the right thing to do was to call an audible and let Q.T. get the win and turn him into an underdog cult hero in all of his matches and just let Butcher and Blade be undercard jamokes for a while. That’s how great Q.T. was in his role.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- odd
Darby Allin came out, shoving past The Blade on his way down the ramp. He extended his hand to the dejected Cody. That was nice of him, but the announcers tried to portray it as Cody finally having a friend, which is ridiculous because he’s part of the Elite and thus already has friends.
MJF HARASSES A CREWMEMBER- FANTASTIC PROMO!
He says he saw this guy laughing when Cody insulted his CrossRhodes last week. He says everything will be forgiven if the guy kisses his ring (well… now we know whose idea that terrible gimmick in ROH was). The guy does, but MJF hits him with CrossRhodes anyway. Someone- either AEW themselves or TNT- has begun muting the show whenever the crowd chants a naughty word. Hopefully future AEW crowd members are watching tonight’s show and will take heed not to say anything too naughty, because this style of editing makes the show annoying, and it’s even worse when I’m missing words in a promo because of it.
MJF then proceeded to cut a FANTASTIC heel promo. Utterly amazing pure heel stuff. He agreed to wrestle Cody, but only under certain stipulations, which he would reveal in Jacksonville. The announcers told us that this would be the first show of 2020.

THE DARK ORDER ARE SENDING ALEX REYNOLDS MESSAGES THROUGH A HOTEL TV SCREEN- Once again, this was well done for what it was, but I cannot help but be annoyed by the fact that it clashes with the way the rest of the show is shot. Everything else feels the need to explain why the camera is there. Even other Dark Order videos were presented as videos the Dark Order themselves sent in as recruitment pitches. This one, however, was full-on WWE “just pretend the cameras aren’t there because we’re making movies” style.
John Silver showed up and apparently couldn’t see or hear Grayson talking to Alex Reynolds through the TV. This would have also been more effective if they had identified these two earlier on. Also, I maybe would have saved it until next week, just to actually start an episodic thing with the Dark Order rather than doing two segments in one night, but maybe this timeline is necessary for something they have planned.

BIG SWOLE vs. EMI SAKURA- 5/10
Hikaru Shida was shown watching from the crowd. They also noted that Nyla Rose’s suspension is “probably” going to last the rest of the year, and pointed out that Rick Knox is taped up after being powerbombed through a table by Nyla last week.
This match was dragged down by the goofball sh*t. Sakura in particular looked like a total clown throughout. Thank G-d she lost this match.

JENN DECKER INTERVIEWS PAC- good
He demands a rubber match with Kenny Omega or “I will not be help accountable for what I do next.”

ADAM PAGE & KENNY OMEGA vs. SHAWN SPEARS & KIP SABIAN (w/Penelope Ford)- 6/10
You know… if the story is going to be that Adam Page has left the Elite, maybe don’t have him constantly be either teaming with the Elite or fighting their enemies.

Tully Blanchard was absent from ringside seemingly just so he could be abducted by Joey Janela. And did we really need the magically lights going out gimmick for this reveal? Janela couldn’t have just wheeled him out onto the stage?
Spears went to go save Tully, resulting in the babyfaces using a two on one advantage to win… which is also the second time this particular babyface combination has done so. In addition to this, I also wasn’t fond of Janela’s involvement here as it places him so close to Sabian and Penelope without having it be relevant at all, which is problematic simply because they spent time on a PPV having Penelope bury him and flaunt her new relationship, and now that’s just being ignored.
I did like the idea of Page tagging himself in so he could hit his own finisher and kind of steal Omega’s win, although I think the “steal” part is a little debatable here just because Kenny hasn’t really used the V-Trigger as a finisher in AEW. Either way, though, the idea of Page tagging himself in to steal the glory from is friend to help himself snap out of a funk is definitely the beginning of a story I am interested in.

BRANDI RHODES PROMO- very good
She cut a good promo on the whole division while being creepy and reinforcing her offer to Kris Statlander. Also of importance is the fact that she has a bald male member of her Nightmare Collective whose identity she is hiding from us until she feels that the time is right. When she was talking about Britt Baker and started her sentence with “here’s a drinking game, take a shot every time” I was worried she was going to go irredeemably heel and try to get fans to kill themselves by finishing her sentence with “the announcers tell you that Britt Baker has a medical degree.” Instead she just used it to make a veiled reference to Adam Cole.

SAMMY GUEVARA vs. LUCHASAURUS (w/Marko Stunt & Jungle Boy)- 5.75/10
Jericho and Hager shooed Excalibur and Schiavone away from the commentary table with threats of violence, with Jericho taking their place for this match.
Luchasaurus won, then got jumped by Jericho and Hager, setting up for Jungle Boy to run in, make the save, and get the better of Jericho in the middle of the ring. He hit Jericho with a hurricanrana and then pinned him, with Marko Stunt counting the three. Very good build to next week’s Jericho vs. Jungle Boy match.

Their next PPV will be February 29th, and will be called Revolution, which is my most-hated f*cking stupid cliché name for a wrestling show.

The plug for next week’s Lucha Bros. vs. Page & Omega match was interrupted by Jericho screaming at the announcers to tell everyone that “that didn’t count.” Also announced for next week is Britt Baker vs. Kris Statlander, the ten-minute time-limit match between Jericho and Jungle Boy, and SCU defending against the winners of our…

#1 CONTENDERSHIP TEXAS STREET FIGHT: Young Bucks vs. Proud & Powerful- 8.5/10
Street Fights in AEW are Falls Count Anywhere. More importantly, they told us about it right at the beginning. Also at the beginning, Proud & Powerful and Sammy Guevara jumped the Bucks from behind with signature weapons. Brandon Cutler tried to make the save but he got powerbombed through that clearly gimmicked area of the stage. That’s the third time someone has gotten powerbomed through there. AEW really should have reinforced it by now, if for no other reason than to stop having to incur the cost of repairs.
The Bucks took Guevara out with an Indy-Taker onto the ramp, then got a nearfall with Nick hitting a senton bomb off of a set piece onto Ortiz through a table because apparently we don’t have to actually be in the ring for the match to officially start. I’m perfectly fine with that in a Falls Count Anywhere match, but I’d like to at least hear a bell.
Lots of stuff happened. The Bucks won the expected exciting carnage-fest. Some might not like them, but I felt that the factions involved made the interferences necessary, and they did a very good job of pacing them out and making them meaningful. An awesome main event. We then got the obligatory post-match stare-down with SCU, who were watching from the first row.

This a GREAT episode of Dynamite, with a lot of solid little segments, some excellent promos, and an awesome main event. The build to next week’s show has made it feel like the biggest show they have had since the first one.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/11/2019 Dynamite (GREAT!)

Post by cero2k » Dec 13th, '19, 12:09

Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 12th, '19, 21:47
JON MOXLEY vs. A NAMELESS JOBBER (w/his nameless friend)- squash
Not giving jobbers names and entrances is something I had hoped AEW wouldn’t copy from WWE, but no luck. Moxley beat the jobber (I assume this was Alex Reynolds because the guy on the outside was John Silver) in mere moments. He then tossed him to the outside, leading Silver to try to attack him but get laid out with the Death Rider as well.
I know what you're saying, but they've been in the show several times already and Excalibur did name them.

Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 12th, '19, 21:47
THE DARK ORDER ARE SENDING ALEX REYNOLDS MESSAGES THROUGH A HOTEL TV SCREEN- Once again, this was well done for what it was, but I cannot help but be annoyed by the fact that it clashes with the way the rest of the show is shot. Everything else feels the need to explain why the camera is there. Even other Dark Order videos were presented as videos the Dark Order themselves sent in as recruitment pitches. This one, however, was full-on WWE “just pretend the cameras aren’t there because we’re making movies” style.
John Silver showed up and apparently couldn’t see or hear Grayson talking to Alex Reynolds through the TV. This would have also been more effective if they had identified these two earlier on. Also, I maybe would have saved it until next week, just to actually start an episodic thing with the Dark Order rather than doing two segments in one night, but maybe this timeline is necessary for something they have planned.
There's a distinction between the live videos and the cinematic videos, they even look different, there's no reason why we can't have both to tell stories. I don't think we've seen any 'no camera' stuff that happened during the show

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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/11/2019 Dynamite (GREAT!)

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 13th, '19, 13:49

cero2k wrote:
Dec 13th, '19, 12:09
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 12th, '19, 21:47
JON MOXLEY vs. A NAMELESS JOBBER (w/his nameless friend)- squash
Not giving jobbers names and entrances is something I had hoped AEW wouldn’t copy from WWE, but no luck. Moxley beat the jobber (I assume this was Alex Reynolds because the guy on the outside was John Silver) in mere moments. He then tossed him to the outside, leading Silver to try to attack him but get laid out with the Death Rider as well.
I know what you're saying, but they've been in the show several times already and Excalibur did name them.
WWE does that, too. It's just one of those things that loses the "real sports" atmosphere to me. Maybe it'd be okay during a commercial, but not to start the show off.
cero2k wrote:
Dec 13th, '19, 12:09
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 12th, '19, 21:47
THE DARK ORDER ARE SENDING ALEX REYNOLDS MESSAGES THROUGH A HOTEL TV SCREEN- Once again, this was well done for what it was, but I cannot help but be annoyed by the fact that it clashes with the way the rest of the show is shot. Everything else feels the need to explain why the camera is there. Even other Dark Order videos were presented as videos the Dark Order themselves sent in as recruitment pitches. This one, however, was full-on WWE “just pretend the cameras aren’t there because we’re making movies” style.
John Silver showed up and apparently couldn’t see or hear Grayson talking to Alex Reynolds through the TV. This would have also been more effective if they had identified these two earlier on. Also, I maybe would have saved it until next week, just to actually start an episodic thing with the Dark Order rather than doing two segments in one night, but maybe this timeline is necessary for something they have planned.
There's a distinction between the live videos and the cinematic videos, they even look different, there's no reason why we can't have both to tell stories. I don't think we've seen any 'no camera' stuff that happened during the show
I think you can't have both because having both is immersion-breaking.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/11/2019 Dynamite (GREAT!)

Post by cero2k » Dec 13th, '19, 15:02

Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 13th, '19, 13:49

I think you can't have both because having both is immersion-breaking.
so then we can never see anything that would happen in these people's lives outside of the two hour show. No one is real in front of a camera, so talk about immersion-breaking, i'm now just seeing a ton of actors that only exist within an arena.

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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/11/2019 Dynamite (GREAT!)

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 14th, '19, 17:17

cero2k wrote:
Dec 13th, '19, 15:02
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 13th, '19, 13:49

I think you can't have both because having both is immersion-breaking.
so then we can never see anything that would happen in these people's lives outside of the two hour show. No one is real in front of a camera, so talk about immersion-breaking, i'm now just seeing a ton of actors that only exist within an arena.
Absolutely not. There are plaenty of ways to show us things that happen outside of an arena. Maybe the wrestlers themselves are shooting a video for social media. Maybe AEW has a film crew following them around. Maybe a new organization is doing a story on them. Maybe it's security camera footage. Maybe a fan caught something on video. There are a million ways to capture the necessary interactions.
And as for your "I'm now just seeing a ton of actors that only exist within an arena," argument... no one seems to have any trouble with that when New Japan does it. Because you're not even supposed to be thinking about it as if they're actors. You're supposed to be treating them like pro athletes. When Michael Jordan had the flu we didn't see him vomiting everywhere the night before he dropped all of those points on the Knicks., even though that visual would have enhanced the story.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/11/2019 Dynamite (GREAT!)

Post by cero2k » Dec 14th, '19, 22:43

Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 14th, '19, 17:17

And as for your "I'm now just seeing a ton of actors that only exist within an arena," argument... no one seems to have any trouble with that when New Japan does it. Because you're not even supposed to be thinking about it as if they're actors. You're supposed to be treating them like pro athletes. When Michael Jordan had the flu we didn't see him vomiting everywhere the night before he dropped all of those points on the Knicks., even though that visual would have enhanced the story.
exactly, and when I see a video of Alex Reynolds in his hotel, i know it's Alex Reynolds the wrestler, who just lost a match, who is seeing a weird ass video in the hotel, the last thing i think about is 'wait! who is recording this!?'

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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/11/2019 Dynamite (GREAT!)

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 15th, '19, 01:10

cero2k wrote:
Dec 14th, '19, 22:43
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 14th, '19, 17:17

And as for your "I'm now just seeing a ton of actors that only exist within an arena," argument... no one seems to have any trouble with that when New Japan does it. Because you're not even supposed to be thinking about it as if they're actors. You're supposed to be treating them like pro athletes. When Michael Jordan had the flu we didn't see him vomiting everywhere the night before he dropped all of those points on the Knicks., even though that visual would have enhanced the story.
exactly, and when I see a video of Alex Reynolds in his hotel, i know it's Alex Reynolds the wrestler, who just lost a match, who is seeing a weird ass video in the hotel, the last thing i think about is 'wait! who is recording this!?'
How can you not think that? Do you usually get to see Okada in his hotel room after the matches, too?

If in every other segment they're going out of their way to establish why we can see these events, it doesn't strike you as odd when they break from the pattern?

And let me then ask you this: I didn't realize it was Alex Reynolds until they said his name. I thought he was just some random person, like everyone else in the Dark Order videos. Wade Keller had no idea it was Alex Reynolds. I only knew it was a Dark Order video because of the AEW watermark on the screen. If they're going to show us camera images with no explanation of how we're seeing them, shouldn't they put graphics up on the screen to make sure understand who the people are?
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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/11/2019 Dynamite (GREAT!)

Post by cero2k » Dec 15th, '19, 12:50

Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 15th, '19, 01:10

How can you not think that? Do you usually get to see Okada in his hotel room after the matches, too?

If in every other segment they're going out of their way to establish why we can see these events, it doesn't strike you as odd when they break from the pattern?

And let me then ask you this: I didn't realize it was Alex Reynolds until they said his name. I thought he was just some random person, like everyone else in the Dark Order videos. Wade Keller had no idea it was Alex Reynolds. I only knew it was a Dark Order video because of the AEW watermark on the screen. If they're going to show us camera images with no explanation of how we're seeing them, shouldn't they put graphics up on the screen to make sure understand who the people are?
I don't know, i just don't see it as a big deal, it's like when we see videos on the tron recorded on a phone or the CCTV thing, or highly edited "live" videos that happen during broadcast, or superpowers, i'm not trying to make wrestling real, i'm trying to follow each individual beef that wrestler A has with wrestler B and how everything got there . we don't get to see Okada, but it wouldn't be bad if we did. I would have loved to see more of Okada's behavior outside of NJPW during his Baloonmaker era, cuz he was pretty weird. It be pretty awesome actually to see more inter-stable videos like that, where we can suppose we're seeing them in their environment. Think about it, we don't ever get to see how BUSHI and Hiromu behave with each other outside.

The only thing that i'll give you is that I agree that these videos should never be referenced by anyone live in the arena.

I don't see them as 'going out of their way', it's just how things look. If it's about going out our the way, then maybe we're seeing a 'Dark Order Production' and The Beaver Boys have already joined.

This is where I agree that Reynolds needed his name plate at the start of the show, because he was going to be there again later in this video. I recognized him because he's been on AEW several times before in matches. Maybe I just pay more attention to what i'm reviewing than Wade Keller does.
I understand that this is 'mainstream' and you have to dumb things down for the common folk (which i'm 1000% against with), but I mean, they can't walk the audience down by the hand like lost kids in the mall. This isn't a thing from Dark/BTE that wasn't referenced in the main show, it's not an indie name that only hardcores recognize, this is a wrestler that was just IN THE OPENER minutes ago. If not recognized by people, this wasn't an AEW fault.

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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/11/2019 Dynamite (GREAT!)

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 15th, '19, 13:49

cero2k wrote:
Dec 15th, '19, 12:50
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 15th, '19, 01:10

How can you not think that? Do you usually get to see Okada in his hotel room after the matches, too?

If in every other segment they're going out of their way to establish why we can see these events, it doesn't strike you as odd when they break from the pattern?

And let me then ask you this: I didn't realize it was Alex Reynolds until they said his name. I thought he was just some random person, like everyone else in the Dark Order videos. Wade Keller had no idea it was Alex Reynolds. I only knew it was a Dark Order video because of the AEW watermark on the screen. If they're going to show us camera images with no explanation of how we're seeing them, shouldn't they put graphics up on the screen to make sure understand who the people are?
I don't know, i just don't see it as a big deal, it's like when we see videos on the tron recorded on a phone or the CCTV thing, or highly edited "live" videos that happen during broadcast, or superpowers, i'm not trying to make wrestling real, i'm trying to follow each individual beef that wrestler A has with wrestler B and how everything got there . we don't get to see Okada, but it wouldn't be bad if we did. I would have loved to see more of Okada's behavior outside of NJPW during his Baloonmaker era, cuz he was pretty weird. It be pretty awesome actually to see more inter-stable videos like that, where we can suppose we're seeing them in their environment. Think about it, we don't ever get to see how BUSHI and Hiromu behave with each other outside.
A video recorded from a phone showing up on the Tron is easy: Chromecast (or similar technology). If they can stream a video from wherever they are to my computer to let me watch the PPV then why can't wrestlers stream things from their phones to the Tron (especially with prior approval)?

In principle, I don't disagree with what you're saying. What bothers me is things taken in combination. Why are we seeing the goings on in the Beaver Boys' hotel room, but we didn't get to see Moxley and Tony Khan yelling at each other. Why go through all of the trouble of setting Tony Schiavone up as the reporter live at the airport or broadcasting things from Cody's car if you have no problem just shooting them in the car together (thus eliminating the plot hole of Cody broadcasting his secret strategy to get into Jericho's head live on the air).

As I've said before, both styles are valid, but a promotion needs to pick one and stick with it because shifting between the two as whatever segment you're shooting at that moment requires feels too contrived and thus breaks immersion. One of the things I love about wXw (who use the "pretend the camera isn't there" style) is that every time they need to show someone footage, they find a way for it to make sense that this footage was recorded, and said footage isn't shown to us at the time, which distinguishes it from a "pretend the camera isn't there" segment by making clear that this was recorded footage.

cero2k wrote:
Dec 15th, '19, 12:50
The only thing that i'll give you is that I agree that these videos should never be referenced by anyone live in the arena.
I know WCW tried this at one point and it was a total failure because fans have been so conditioned to expect the announcers to see these things. I think fans might be a bit more receptive to this nowadays because LU did make it work, but LU was also a very different creature from everything else we'd ever seen before.
I think you'd need to limit these segments to either right before or right after commercials, or else you create a logic issue that there was dead air for three minutes or JR talking about barbecue sauce while nothing happened on the show or whatever to explain why showing us this segment didn't mean we missed something else. I'm fine pretending that the "kayfabe" commercial break was one commercial longer on each side, but in the middle of the show it doesn't work.

It does open up the question of what you do for the fans in the arena, as it's silly to play it on the Tron and have the announcers not turn around and look, but you also can't not show the fans at the building because you want them to understand the storylines. It worked for LU because they weren't running live shows and so they could edit in whatever crowd reactions they wanted to.

cero2k wrote:
Dec 15th, '19, 12:50
I don't see them as 'going out of their way', it's just how things look. If it's about going out our the way, then maybe we're seeing a 'Dark Order Production' and The Beaver Boys have already joined.
Like I said last week, I haven't ruled it out as a possibility that these things are totally produced by the Dark Order and there is some duplicitous going on, but like I also said last week, that forces me to wonder why they would allow themselves to come off as so evil in these videos if they are trying to pose as a place that will give you friends and success and all you have to do is join their nice little group. Watching that dude last week get his ass kicked because he only really wanted to have friends is the sort of thing that would probably dissuade a lot of people from joining.
cero2k wrote:
Dec 15th, '19, 12:50

I understand that this is 'mainstream' and you have to dumb things down for the common folk (which i'm 1000% against with), but I mean, they can't walk the audience down by the hand like lost kids in the mall. This isn't a thing from Dark/BTE that wasn't referenced in the main show, it's not an indie name that only hardcores recognize, this is a wrestler that was just IN THE OPENER minutes ago. If not recognized by people, this wasn't an AEW fault.
I don't think the dichotomy you're describing is true, but that's a whole other debate.
With this particular case, the guy is a jobber. Don't try to pretend that you remember what WWE jobbers look like half an hour later. With the way they shot this, they easily could have done something (like have him be wearing his own t-shirt, like wrestlers always do, or be staring at his own CageMatch.net page and seeing all of the losses in AEW) to remind us of who he is.
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