BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

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Big Red Machine
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BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 13th, '19, 21:58

“WHAT CONDITION IS KENNY OMEGA IN?” VIDEO PACKAGE- very well done, and I love the idea of him being dejected that he wasn’t able to at least hurt Moxley enough to prevent him from being cleared tonight, but I don’t know if I would have showed this before the first match. I think it would have been better to move Jungle vs. Express vs. Dark Order to the opener, then do this, then go into Moxley vs. Nakazawa.

JON MOXLEY vs. MICHAEL NAKAZAWA- good squash

JON MOXLEY PROMO- GREAT!

JUNGLE EXPRESS (Marko Stunt & Jungle Boy) vs. THE DARK ORDER (w/the Creepers)- 6.5/10
Heels win clean, setting up for the…

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- started off good but wound up embarrassingly bad
Evil Uno offers to help make Marko Stunt a winner if Marko will become on of his creepers. Jungle Boy won’t let it happen, so Uno sics Stu Grayson and the Creepers on the babyfaces. They were going to forcibly put a creeper mask on Jungle Boy but Luchasaurus chose that moment to make his return… and here is where things went wrong. You see, instead of running down to the ring to help his buddies, Luchasaurus just started to walk nonchalantly, like there was no hurry at all. Then the Creepers, who we had just seen attack en masse fifteen seconds ago suddenly turned into dumb video game AI and attacked one at a time, each waiting for the previous one to get disposed off before stepping up. Finally Luchasaurus got to the ring and Uno ordered three Creepers forward. Did they finally all attack at the same time? No. They just stood there in a line and let Luchasaurus kick them all in the face at the same time, like Mom’s three idiot kids on Futurama. Making matters worse was the fact that one of them wasn’t even touched by the kick but sold it anyway.
Then Luchasaurus picked one of them up and gave him a big chokeslam over the top rope onto the others. In the process of doing this he turned his back on both Uno and Grayson… and they just stood there and watched instead of attacking him. Then, when Luchasaurus turned back them, Uno rolled out of the ring and told Grayson to attack Luchasaurus. Luchasaurus blocked a strike… and then Grayson threw up a block and stood still, even though Luchasaurus had not yet begun a strike, at which point Luchasaurus then lifted his leg up and around Gray’s unmoving body to kick him in the head. Then he did a standing moonsault. Quite frankly, the only way they could possibly save this is if the story wind sup being that Luchasaurus paid the Dark Order off to create a situation where he could come out and be the big hero, because this looked like everyone was working together to try to make Luchasaurus look as cool as possible, without even bothering to try to disguise the fact that they were all working together. It was PAINFUL to watch.

DARBY ALLIN vs. SHAWN SPEARS (w/Tully Blanchard) vs. PETER AVALON (w/Leva Bates)- 4/10
They did stuff for a bit, then Janela came out to brawl away with Spears, leaving Darby alone with Avalon, who he beat. I really liked the booking here, as making this a three-way rather than just having Darby squash Avalon and having Janela and Spears get into a backstage brawl or something like that because it gets more people on the show. When they were running down tonight’s card it hit me how many members of the roster have been mostly absent from Dynamite so far, and this gets more people on the show by creating a segment that kills two birds with one stone rather than getting more people on the show by cramming more segments in, taking time away from everyone.
The only real negative here is that the three-way we were getting was surprisingly good, so I was quite disappointed to see Spears leave. I know this segment was supposed to make me want to see Spears vs. Janela, but I came away from this really wanting to see Spears vs. Darby instead.

DARBY ALLIN PROMO- I still want to see Darby vs. Spears, but I’m certainly not going to complain about Darby vs. Moxley, either. When we got back from a commercial break, JR told us that this match has been booked for next week.

NYLA ROSE vs. DANI JORDAN- squash

DUSTIN RHODES WILL BE HEALED UP IN A FEW WEEKS- good news

They announced a “Dynamite Dozen Battle Royale” for next week. This is a battle royale from twelve down to two, then the final two wrestlers will meet in a singles match where the winner gets… an AEW ring. Yes, really.
1. Stop if with the f*cking battle royales!
2. Why are we taking a pointless TNA gimmick? If you’re going to do a battle royale, just do a battle royale. There is no reason to pin someone, too. It just makes the runner up look worse than the people who were eliminated before him.
3. No one cares about a f*cking ring with a logo on it. WCW tried it twenty-five years ago and it failed. ROH tried it LAST F*CKING YEAR (with Cody, in fact), and it failed. Why are we doing this?

TONY SCHIAVONE INTERVIEWS ALLIE- She is #4 in the rankings despite being just 1-1 in singles matches. She said she wanted to show everyone what she could do on Dynamite, just like she has been doing on Dark for the past month, apparently. She was interrupted by Awesome Kong and Brandi. Allie attacked Kong, who no-sold all of her punches and took her out with just a few strikes. They then harvested her hair. Having your #4-ranked wrestler get destroyed so effortlessly made the whole rating system feel silly.

HEELS GLOATING- GREAT… until the end
Jericho comes out and starts cutting a total heel promo. Despite this, the fans cheer him when he talks about having retained his title… but then boo him when he insults Cody. Do you like the guy or not? Just pick one and stick with it!
Cody’s music and entrance hit, but it turns out to be MJF. I thought it was pretty obvious, just because the way AEW books seems like they will have a week or two of Cody video packages or building up his silence before having him actually appear in the arena. The real question is why the production crew went along with MJF doing something that they KNOW is only intended to mock their boss?
MJF cut a promo on Cody claiming that the real Cody is manipulative liar only out for himself and that Cody only befriended him to keep him down, etc. This got great heat, but I was a little disappointed in it. I’m not even sure why. I guess I was just hoping for an out and out “that’s right, I screwed Cody to get him out of the title picture and played him like a fiddle! What an idiot!” instead of any sort of attempt to convince the fans that MJF is morally in the right. Then again, I guess MJF essentially outright declaring that he is willing to allow with someone and then screw them over to increase his own chance of winning the world title would make it pretty difficult for Jericho to accept him into the Inner Circle.
Anyway, MJF and Jericho were entertaining as hell together. I think the exact bit they did here would get very annoying if they did it ever again, but it worked perfectly here, and did make me want to see them play off of each other more.
Eventually Cody came out to put a stop to things. He was chased by someone telling him we wasn’t cleared for physical action tonight, which is more than a little silly when you consider that MOXLEY was cleared, and he wrestled a f*cking DEATHMATCH on Sunday.
Cody charged to the ring anyway and started to beat up both MJF and Jericho all by himself even though he is injured and they aren’t. His attempt at giving Jericho the Randy Orton/Samoa Joe-style powerslam to an oncoming opponent was so badly botched that everyone thought Jericho had reversed the move. He got the move the second time, though, and was standing tall in the ring before he was taken out by Wardlow, who… I guess jumped the guardrail or maybe was hiding under the ring or something? I don’t know. I’m really just gob-smacked by the lack of self-awareness it takes to cut a promo telling everyone that you don’t want to be one of those promoters/bookers who books himself as the top guy, then one week later come out and beat up the world champion and the guy who just betrayed you all by yourself even though you are supposedly not healthy enough to be cleared to wrestle and they are. The apple didn’t fall far from the tree, did it?
Anyway, Wardlow is apparently MJF’s new bodyguard, so now BOTH top singles heels have a big, muscular bodyguard. They choke Cody with his own tie. None of Cody’s buddies in the Elite come out to make the save.

ADAM PAGE vs. PAC- 7.75/10
This match feels like it was booked because AFTER last night’s show, someone in charge realized that it’s really not fair to say that Page is 2-1 against Pac when one of those wins came after Pac’s own partner attacked him and walked out on him, and then Page and Omega ganged up on Pac, so despite last night having been hyped up as the “rubber match,” tonight’s match is also hyped up as the “rubber match.” And this is something I fully approve of. You made a mistake in your booking, so just go out there and correct it.
Pac won clean, after going NUTS on Page.

THE BUCKS AND PROUD & POWERFUL FIGHT BACKSTAGE- I don’t like this feud continuing, as the combination of this, Pac vs. Page, and the fact that SCU and Lucha Bros. are still feuding makes it seem like very little was actually resolved at the first PPV (and it’s worse if Omega vs. Moxley and Cody vs. Jericho continue, which there is definitely an avenue to do for both, but I’m not certain that’s the direction they’re going in). This went on WAY too long. LAXA injured Nick’s knee and powerbombed Matt through that clearly-gimmicked extra part of the stage.
Also, whoever decided that this intense brawl needed a comedy cameo from Orange Cassidy is a moron.

Also, is it just me, or do Proud & Powerful not really feel like members of the Inner Circle? They (and the Bucks) been mostly removed from the Cody vs. Jericho & the Inner Circle stuff, and now it’s Jericho & Guevara getting a tag title shot tonight for the Inner Circle even though they, too, are undefeated.

AEW WORLD TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: SCU (Frankie Kazarian & Scorpio Sky)(c) (w/Christopher Daniels) vs. the Inner Circle (Chris Jericho & Sammy Guevara) (w/Jake Hager)- 6.75/10
Between how long the Bucks vs. LAX brawl went, SCU wasting time doing their schtick, and the formal introductions, this match started with fewer than twelve minutes left in the show. Excalibur told us that if this match runs out of TV time, they will keep streaming it on YouTube. Okay… well then why can’t they do that with every TV main event? Why was Pac vs. Moxley, for example, not given this option?
The match went about eleven minutes and never quite hit a passable level for a TV main event, but at least the finish had main event-level importance. Said finish was Scorpio Sky pinning AEW World Champion Chris Jericho with a small package. This not only sets up a future title match, but I really like the way they’re building up cache with Scorpio Sky’s small package. One thing I will definitely say for the AEW crew is that they know how to take a move or an object and built up a lot of cache in it to make it important instead of letting it wind up as a one-off that just happens to be the tool used in a certain situation. The only thing here that I thought didn’t work was Jericho’s post-match temper-tantrum, came across as oddly lethargic for someone who I thought was supposed to be furious.


This show left me with a lot of mixed feelings. It showed a lot of what AEW has going for it, but also a lot of what feel to me like big problems for them, which is essentially self-sabotage by not knowing where to stop, and what feels like a lot of redundancy in the angles. As a post-PPV show I thought it did a good job of dealing with the PPV fallout and setting a new direction, but a little too much of the new direction in some quarters (particularly where the big names are concerned) feels the same as the old direction.


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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by cero2k » Nov 14th, '19, 08:58

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 13th, '19, 21:58
They announced a “Dynamite Dozen Battle Royale” for next week. This is a battle royale from twelve down to two, then the final two wrestlers will meet in a singles match where the winner gets… an AEW ring. Yes, really.
1. Stop if with the f*cking battle royales!
2. Why are we taking a pointless TNA gimmick? If you’re going to do a battle royale, just do a battle royale. There is no reason to pin someone, too. It just makes the runner up look worse than the people who were eliminated before him.
3. No one cares about a f*cking ring with a logo on it. WCW tried it twenty-five years ago and it failed. ROH tried it LAST F*CKING YEAR (with Cody, in fact), and it failed. Why are we doing this?
1. There hasn't been a single battle royal on Dynamite. There were two Rumbles in the year.
2. it's not a pointless TNA gimmick, it's been part of wrestling far before TNA was born, and it makes no one look bad if they still go a couple minutes and you consider they've already survived the whole battle. It is FAAAR better than just ending with someone going over a rope.
3. We don't even know what the ring is about, don't jump into conclusions because you hate AEW.

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 13th, '19, 21:58
TONY SCHIAVONE INTERVIEWS ALLIE- She is #4 in the rankings despite being just 1-1 in singles matches. She said she wanted to show everyone what she could do on Dynamite, just like she has been doing on Dark for the past month, apparently. She was interrupted by Awesome Kong and Brandi. Allie attacked Kong, who no-sold all of her punches and took her out with just a few strikes. They then harvested her hair. Having your #4-ranked wrestler get destroyed so effortlessly made the whole rating system feel silly.
Allie is 3-2. System is not silly, Kong is just THAT strong.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 13th, '19, 21:58
Cody charged to the ring anyway and started to beat up both MJF and Jericho all by himself even though he is injured and they aren’t. His attempt at giving Jericho the Randy Orton/Samoa Joe-style powerslam to an oncoming opponent was so badly botched that everyone thought Jericho had reversed the move. He got the move the second time, though, and was standing tall in the ring before he was taken out by Wardlow, who… I guess jumped the guardrail or maybe was hiding under the ring or something? I don’t know. I’m really just gob-smacked by the lack of self-awareness it takes to cut a promo telling everyone that you don’t want to be one of those promoters/bookers who books himself as the top guy, then one week later come out and beat up the world champion and the guy who just betrayed you all by yourself even though you are supposedly not healthy enough to be cleared to wrestle and they are. The apple didn’t fall far from the tree, did it?
So you rather have a babyface that just gets his ass kicked? This is what i'm talking about why AEW has to address comments that "Cody is booking himself as the savior of the world"
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 13th, '19, 21:58
Anyway, Wardlow is apparently MJF’s new bodyguard, so now BOTH top singles heels have a big, muscular bodyguard. They choke Cody with his own tie. None of Cody’s buddies in the Elite come out to make the save.
Omega is not cleared. Bucks are mid brawl in the back. Page's has had this story since the start of dynamite that he hasn't been shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the Elite. Dustin is still gone with an injury. MJF is now a heel. Faroh is a dog. Who else are you expecting?
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 13th, '19, 21:58
THE BUCKS AND PROUD & POWERFUL FIGHT BACKSTAGE- I don’t like this feud continuing, as the combination of this, Pac vs. Page, and the fact that SCU and Lucha Bros. are still feuding makes it seem like very little was actually resolved at the first PPV (and it’s worse if Omega vs. Moxley and Cody vs. Jericho continue, which there is definitely an avenue to do for both, but I’m not certain that’s the direction they’re going in). This went on WAY too long. LAXA injured Nick’s knee and powerbombed Matt through that clearly-gimmicked extra part of the stage.
Also, whoever decided that this intense brawl needed a comedy cameo from Orange Cassidy is a moron.

Also, is it just me, or do Proud & Powerful not really feel like members of the Inner Circle? They (and the Bucks) been mostly removed from the Cody vs. Jericho & the Inner Circle stuff, and now it’s Jericho & Guevara getting a tag title shot tonight for the Inner Circle even though they, too, are undefeated.
it's the first ppv, why would you resolve things so quick when you can milk it? And whoever decided to get OC there knows how to get pops.

It's just you.

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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by NWK2000 » Nov 14th, '19, 09:01

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 13th, '19, 21:58


They announced a “Dynamite Dozen Battle Royale” for next week. This is a battle royale from twelve down to two, then the final two wrestlers will meet in a singles match where the winner gets… an AEW ring. Yes, really.

2. Why are we taking a pointless TNA gimmick? If you’re going to do a battle royale, just do a battle royale. There is no reason to pin someone, too. It just makes the runner up look worse than the people who were eliminated before him.
3. No one cares about a f*cking ring with a logo on it. WCW tried it twenty-five years ago and it failed. ROH tried it LAST F*CKING YEAR (with Cody, in fact), and it failed. Why are we doing this?

I've always liked the "pinfall finish to a battle royale" modus operandi, always felt more definitive than being thrown from a ring.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 14th, '19, 10:00

NWK2000 wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 09:01
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 13th, '19, 21:58


They announced a “Dynamite Dozen Battle Royale” for next week. This is a battle royale from twelve down to two, then the final two wrestlers will meet in a singles match where the winner gets… an AEW ring. Yes, really.

2. Why are we taking a pointless TNA gimmick? If you’re going to do a battle royale, just do a battle royale. There is no reason to pin someone, too. It just makes the runner up look worse than the people who were eliminated before him.
3. No one cares about a f*cking ring with a logo on it. WCW tried it twenty-five years ago and it failed. ROH tried it LAST F*CKING YEAR (with Cody, in fact), and it failed. Why are we doing this?

I've always liked the "pinfall finish to a battle royale" modus operandi, always felt more definitive than being thrown from a ring.
Which begs the question why only the final elimination is by pinfall/submission rather than all of them.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by cero2k » Nov 14th, '19, 10:05

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 10:00
NWK2000 wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 09:01

I've always liked the "pinfall finish to a battle royale" modus operandi, always felt more definitive than being thrown from a ring.
Which begs the question why only the final elimination is by pinfall/submission rather than all of them.
because that's the stipulation. over the top until the final 2. All pins/submissions is different type of match, all over the top rope is another type of match, all those hit by a hot dog after singing the national anthem is another type of match.

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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by NWK2000 » Nov 14th, '19, 11:41

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 10:00
NWK2000 wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 09:01
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 13th, '19, 21:58


They announced a “Dynamite Dozen Battle Royale” for next week. This is a battle royale from twelve down to two, then the final two wrestlers will meet in a singles match where the winner gets… an AEW ring. Yes, really.

2. Why are we taking a pointless TNA gimmick? If you’re going to do a battle royale, just do a battle royale. There is no reason to pin someone, too. It just makes the runner up look worse than the people who were eliminated before him.
3. No one cares about a f*cking ring with a logo on it. WCW tried it twenty-five years ago and it failed. ROH tried it LAST F*CKING YEAR (with Cody, in fact), and it failed. Why are we doing this?

I've always liked the "pinfall finish to a battle royale" modus operandi, always felt more definitive than being thrown from a ring.
Which begs the question why only the final elimination is by pinfall/submission rather than all of them.
Because the amount of people in a battle royal plus the referee while the referee is trying to count pinfalls and generally enforce rules would be complete chaos for the referee and wrestlers. The only workaround I can envision is if you had the referees as lumberjacks sliding in and out as needed to count pinfalls under elimination rules. which would be an interesting take on a Royal Rumble style event, but even then I feel like you'd run into more logistical problems than just having one pinfall count.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 14th, '19, 12:35

NWK2000 wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 11:41
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 10:00
NWK2000 wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 09:01



I've always liked the "pinfall finish to a battle royale" modus operandi, always felt more definitive than being thrown from a ring.
Which begs the question why only the final elimination is by pinfall/submission rather than all of them.
Because the amount of people in a battle royal plus the referee while the referee is trying to count pinfalls and generally enforce rules would be complete chaos for the referee and wrestlers. The only workaround I can envision is if you had the referees as lumberjacks sliding in and out as needed to count pinfalls under elimination rules. which would be an interesting take on a Royal Rumble style event, but even then I feel like you'd run into more logistical problems than just having one pinfall count.
That's the logistical reason, yes, but it misses the philosophical question of why the other eliminations should be held under less stringent requirements.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by NWK2000 » Nov 14th, '19, 12:55

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 12:35
NWK2000 wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 11:41
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 10:00


Which begs the question why only the final elimination is by pinfall/submission rather than all of them.
Because the amount of people in a battle royal plus the referee while the referee is trying to count pinfalls and generally enforce rules would be complete chaos for the referee and wrestlers. The only workaround I can envision is if you had the referees as lumberjacks sliding in and out as needed to count pinfalls under elimination rules. which would be an interesting take on a Royal Rumble style event, but even then I feel like you'd run into more logistical problems than just having one pinfall count.
That's the logistical reason, yes, but it misses the philosophical question of why the other eliminations should be held under less stringent requirements.
Because being ejected from the ring is the least constringent requirement imaginable, and part of the drama of a battle royal is seeing how the mass of humanity would interact with one another under these conditions. The less people you have in that ring under that requirement, the less dramatic it becomes. Also, most people's work around to this is to work like a regular singles match anyway (see Undertaker vs Shawn Micheals at Royal Rumble 2007) so why not just have a regular match anyway,
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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by Serujuunin » Nov 14th, '19, 15:05

I haven't finished the episode yet, but the first thing that was immediately noticable to me (having not watched Full Gear), is that everyone has really generic sounding music... Everything kinda sounds the same.

And it looks like Spears has put some mass on since WWE.

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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 14th, '19, 17:39

NWK2000 wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 12:55
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 12:35
NWK2000 wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 11:41


Because the amount of people in a battle royal plus the referee while the referee is trying to count pinfalls and generally enforce rules would be complete chaos for the referee and wrestlers. The only workaround I can envision is if you had the referees as lumberjacks sliding in and out as needed to count pinfalls under elimination rules. which would be an interesting take on a Royal Rumble style event, but even then I feel like you'd run into more logistical problems than just having one pinfall count.
That's the logistical reason, yes, but it misses the philosophical question of why the other eliminations should be held under less stringent requirements.
Because being ejected from the ring is the least constringent requirement imaginable, and part of the drama of a battle royal is seeing how the mass of humanity would interact with one another under these conditions. The less people you have in that ring under that requirement, the less dramatic it becomes. Also, most people's work around to this is to work like a regular singles match anyway (see Undertaker vs Shawn Micheals at Royal Rumble 2007) so why not just have a regular match anyway,
But the kayfabe purpose of the rules is not to allow for high drama. The purpose of the rules is to govern a sport contest in a fair manner.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 14th, '19, 17:49

cero2k wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 10:05
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 10:00
NWK2000 wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 09:01

I've always liked the "pinfall finish to a battle royale" modus operandi, always felt more definitive than being thrown from a ring.
Which begs the question why only the final elimination is by pinfall/submission rather than all of them.
because that's the stipulation. over the top until the final 2. All pins/submissions is different type of match, all over the top rope is another type of match, all those hit by a hot dog after singing the national anthem is another type of match.
This explanation I am mostly fine with. My issue is a non-kayfbae one. Why are we having someone get pinned in a match where no one would bat an eyelash if it was just a usual battle royale? Hell, if this thing is a championship (which they seem to be sating that it is), why not do the "enter in groups" style of battle royale that they have used for the other singles championships?
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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 14th, '19, 18:14

cero2k wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 08:58
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 13th, '19, 21:58
They announced a “Dynamite Dozen Battle Royale” for next week. This is a battle royale from twelve down to two, then the final two wrestlers will meet in a singles match where the winner gets… an AEW ring. Yes, really.
1. Stop if with the f*cking battle royales!
2. Why are we taking a pointless TNA gimmick? If you’re going to do a battle royale, just do a battle royale. There is no reason to pin someone, too. It just makes the runner up look worse than the people who were eliminated before him.
3. No one cares about a f*cking ring with a logo on it. WCW tried it twenty-five years ago and it failed. ROH tried it LAST F*CKING YEAR (with Cody, in fact), and it failed. Why are we doing this?
1. There hasn't been a single battle royal on Dynamite. There were two Rumbles in the year.
2. it's not a pointless TNA gimmick, it's been part of wrestling far before TNA was born, and it makes no one look bad if they still go a couple minutes and you consider they've already survived the whole battle. It is FAAAR better than just ending with someone going over a rope.
3. We don't even know what the ring is about, don't jump into conclusions because you hate AEW.
1. Fine
2. It is them taking a gimmick that someone else used and was much-maligned, and they are taking it for no reason. To my knowledge, no one was doing "battle royale until the last two, then a singles match" before TNA. And if ending with someone going over the top rope is so bad because it's not definitive enough, why is starting with it okay?
3. They're having a match where the winner gets "an AEW diamond ring." It can't be any more clear than that. I don't think it's unfair to compare it to several other times this same idea has failed miserably, especially because you can't find me one time where such a gimmick has succeeded.
cero2k wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 08:58

Allie is 3-2. System is not silly, Kong is just THAT strong.
If Kong is that strong than I expect to see her knocking people out consistently with relative ease. And if she does then I will admit that I was wrong.

cero2k wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 08:58

So you rather have a babyface that just gets his ass kicked? This is what i'm talking about why AEW has to address comments that "Cody is booking himself as the savior of the world."
Replace "Cody" with "Hunter" and people would be up in arms about this. In fact, they WERE up in arms about it when Hunter did similar things in the past. If it hadn't been for the whole "you're not cleared!" bit then I would have had no problem with it, but going that far just for the for the sake of Cody looking that much braver killed it because it went too far.
cero2k wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 08:58

Omega is not cleared. Bucks are mid brawl in the back. Page's has had this story since the start of dynamite that he hasn't been shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the Elite. Dustin is still gone with an injury. MJF is now a heel. Faroh is a dog. Who else are you expecting?
We don't know when the Bucks vs. Proud & Powerful brawl started, but I'll cede that part of the point to you. But even with that:
1. Cody wasn't cleared either and it didn't stop him from beating up MJF and Jericho at the same time.
2. I have not seen one single hint of this story you are talking about with Page, and in the seven episodes of Dynamite so far, Page has wrestled six matches, of which two have seen him team with members of the Elite and a third has seen him team with Dustin against the Inner Circle.
3. What happened to DDP? Or does he only just happened to show up without being booked on a night Cody happens to need him as back-up?
cero2k wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 08:58

it's the first ppv, why would you resolve things so quick when you can milk it?
Because the point of a PPV is to resolve things. You milk things on TV to lead to the PPV. We're paying money for the blow-off. AEW's goal should not be to be like WWE was this spring where 90% of the feuds just keep going from PPV to PPV.

And if you're against "resolving things so quickly when you can milk it," why weren't you unhappy with how quickly they had MJF reveal he screwed Cody instead of spending weeks milking whether or not he had Cody's best interests in mind?
cero2k wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 08:58
And whoever decided to get OC there knows how to get pops.
It's not about getting pops. If it was, every show where WWE just trots out the nostalgia acts would be the best show ever. It's about telling your stories effectively, and sticking a comedy cameo in the middle of a deadly serious brawl is the opposite of that.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by cero2k » Nov 15th, '19, 15:20

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 17:49

This explanation I am mostly fine with. My issue is a non-kayfbae one. Why are we having someone get pinned in a match where no one would bat an eyelash if it was just a usual battle royale? Hell, if this thing is a championship (which they seem to be sating that it is), why not do the "enter in groups" style of battle royale that they have used for the other singles championships?
Apparently I missed that the one-on-one match happens on the following week, at least that's what Alvarez said. If that is the case, then it really wouldn't be a pinfall on a battle royal, just a battle royal that ends slightly sooner than normal

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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by cero2k » Nov 15th, '19, 15:57

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 18:14

1. Fine
2. It is them taking a gimmick that someone else used and was much-maligned, and they are taking it for no reason. To my knowledge, no one was doing "battle royale until the last two, then a singles match" before TNA. And if ending with someone going over the top rope is so bad because it's not definitive enough, why is starting with it okay?
3. They're having a match where the winner gets "an AEW diamond ring." It can't be any more clear than that. I don't think it's unfair to compare it to several other times this same idea has failed miserably, especially because you can't find me one time where such a gimmick has succeeded.
2. Lucha has done this a lot for years to do multi man mask/hair matches were the final two are the ones that put their hair/mask on the line. I won't argue that it's a smart thing how Lucha does it, that is besides the argument.. I personally like it this way, especially as a battle royal.
3. again, we don't know what the ring means. It is completely unfair to compare it to every other promtion because this one doesn't have bookers from other promotions, not even from their generations. You're setting up yourself to hate it.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 18:14
If Kong is that strong than I expect to see her knocking people out consistently with relative ease. And if she does then I will admit that I was wrong.
Sure, i would only expect Shida/Baker/Nyla/Riho to stand a chance.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 18:14
Replace "Cody" with "Hunter" and people would be up in arms about this. In fact, they WERE up in arms about it when Hunter did similar things in the past. If it hadn't been for the whole "you're not cleared!" bit then I would have had no problem with it, but going that far just for the for the sake of Cody looking that much braver killed it because it went too far.
Hunter has a history of politics and killing pushes and burying people, Cody doesn't have that just yet. Why would i treat them the same if they're not even at the same level? It's not Cody's fault that Hunter doesn't have good will towards him. I think it's more fair to compare him to Quackenbush at this point.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 18:14
We don't know when the Bucks vs. Proud & Powerful brawl started, but I'll cede that part of the point to you. But even with that:
1. Cody wasn't cleared either and it didn't stop him from beating up MJF and Jericho at the same time.
2. I have not seen one single hint of this story you are talking about with Page, and in the seven episodes of Dynamite so far, Page has wrestled six matches, of which two have seen him team with members of the Elite and a third has seen him team with Dustin against the Inner Circle.
3. What happened to DDP? Or does he only just happened to show up without being booked on a night Cody happens to need him as back-up?
1. Omega wasn't even in the arena, otherwise he would have backed up Nakazawa
2. It's been going on since the first episode. Cody, Dustin, and the Bucks all made comments about it, it was also part of why Page and Dustin tagged in the second show, and when Page and Hager brawled on their own, I think they brought it up again. It's been a thing. Either way, Page was getting ready for his match that he has far more stakes in. The match straight up followed.
3. DDP is not even employed by AEW, so yeah, I think he shows up by invitation. DDP is a legeng, if he shows up, you let him in the door.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 18:14
Because the point of a PPV is to resolve things. You milk things on TV to lead to the PPV. We're paying money for the blow-off. AEW's goal should not be to be like WWE was this spring where 90% of the feuds just keep going from PPV to PPV.

And if you're against "resolving things so quickly when you can milk it," why weren't you unhappy with how quickly they had MJF reveal he screwed Cody instead of spending weeks milking whether or not he had Cody's best interests in mind?
Some things should end, and some things should escalate, and some things should be born out of the event. This isn't Impact or NXT with revolving doors, if they end everything at every ppv, they're gonna run out of stories really quick.

The MJF/Cody thing has been going on almost all year, at least since Double or Nothing. I'm perfectly ok with this paying off right here after months of teases.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 18:14
It's not about getting pops. If it was, every show where WWE just trots out the nostalgia acts would be the best show ever. It's about telling your stories effectively, and sticking a comedy cameo in the middle of a deadly serious brawl is the opposite of that.
It's about making money, and you know what movies make the most money? those stupid Marvel movies with jokes during their climatic wars for human kind. Just be happy that the wrestlers don't start playing shitty 80's music out of nowhere. OC showing up like this didn't just suddenly mean that the Bucks vs PnP wasn't a serious brawl, it was just a quick comedic relief. It didn't hurt anything.

And yes, the nostalgia shows are the ones with the most ratings in WWE.

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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 16th, '19, 17:26

cero2k wrote:
Nov 15th, '19, 15:20
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 17:49

This explanation I am mostly fine with. My issue is a non-kayfbae one. Why are we having someone get pinned in a match where no one would bat an eyelash if it was just a usual battle royale? Hell, if this thing is a championship (which they seem to be sating that it is), why not do the "enter in groups" style of battle royale that they have used for the other singles championships?
Apparently I missed that the one-on-one match happens on the following week, at least that's what Alvarez said. If that is the case, then it really wouldn't be a pinfall on a battle royal, just a battle royal that ends slightly sooner than normal
I, too, apparently missed that detail, so I'm not sure where Alvarez is getting it from (or maybe the graphic missed that detail). If that's what they're doing, I like it even less, just because you're going to give us a match without a real conclusion. It would be better to do two qualifiers. Hell, they can still be battle royales and you give your wrestles some time to stretch a different set of creative muscles by doing two six-person battle royales, where they can do more than just a bunch of punch-kick in the corner while one spot happens at a time in the middle.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 16th, '19, 18:46

cero2k wrote:
Nov 15th, '19, 15:57
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 18:14

3. They're having a match where the winner gets "an AEW diamond ring." It can't be any more clear than that. I don't think it's unfair to compare it to several other times this same idea has failed miserably, especially because you can't find me one time where such a gimmick has succeeded.
3. again, we don't know what the ring means. It is completely unfair to compare it to every other promtion because this one doesn't have bookers from other promotions, not even from their generations. You're setting up yourself to hate it.
3. I think it's completely fair to make a comparison- i.e. to analyze based on the information we've been given. At this point, that information is that wrestlers are going to compete for a diamond ring, and this ring is something to be coveted. In pro wrestling, that means it's either going to function like a championship (like the WCW Lord of the Ring Ring in spring 1996), as a one-time trinket, which case it's just a silly prop and you might as well just throw out a dollar figure instead to look less silly and feel more sports-like, or as a continuous trinket we're all supposed to care about, like Cody's ring in ROH in 2018.
If there is more info to be had, they should have shared it with us. What you are doing is like if WWE was introducing a "grand championship" and told us how they were going to crown the first champion, and everyone was going "uch. Not another belt for them to make mean nothing," and you're trying to convince us it's unfair to judge because maybe this will be a hardcore title or a pure rules title or use that stupid TNA point system, even though there is ZERO evidence to support any of that.
cero2k wrote:
Nov 15th, '19, 15:57
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 18:14
If Kong is that strong than I expect to see her knocking people out consistently with relative ease. And if she does then I will admit that I was wrong.
Sure, i would only expect Shida/Baker/Nyla/Riho to stand a chance.
Are there interesting matches there? Sure. But I think being dismissed so easily made Allie look like crap, and I think it will be way too long before they start putting Kong in those matches.
cero2k wrote:
Nov 15th, '19, 15:57
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 18:14
Replace "Cody" with "Hunter" and people would be up in arms about this. In fact, they WERE up in arms about it when Hunter did similar things in the past. If it hadn't been for the whole "you're not cleared!" bit then I would have had no problem with it, but going that far just for the for the sake of Cody looking that much braver killed it because it went too far.
Hunter has a history of politics and killing pushes and burying people, Cody doesn't have that just yet. Why would i treat them the same if they're not even at the same level? It's not Cody's fault that Hunter doesn't have good will towards him. I think it's more fair to compare him to Quackenbush at this point.
You're missing the comparison. It's not 2019 Cody=2008 Hunter. It's 2019 Cody=2000 Hunter, when the rep was just starting. You can't bring Quackenbush up as a comparison point for at least five years or so. At the moment, though, I think the Bucks are the best comparison point, although, if anything, they've been even more generous thane Quackenbush in terms of giving out wins (and probably too generous).
cero2k wrote:
Nov 15th, '19, 15:57
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 18:14
We don't know when the Bucks vs. Proud & Powerful brawl started, but I'll cede that part of the point to you. But even with that:
1. Cody wasn't cleared either and it didn't stop him from beating up MJF and Jericho at the same time.
2. I have not seen one single hint of this story you are talking about with Page, and in the seven episodes of Dynamite so far, Page has wrestled six matches, of which two have seen him team with members of the Elite and a third has seen him team with Dustin against the Inner Circle.
3. What happened to DDP? Or does he only just happened to show up without being booked on a night Cody happens to need him as back-up?
1. Omega wasn't even in the arena, otherwise he would have backed up Nakazawa
2. It's been going on since the first episode. Cody, Dustin, and the Bucks all made comments about it, it was also part of why Page and Dustin tagged in the second show, and when Page and Hager brawled on their own, I think they brought it up again. It's been a thing. Either way, Page was getting ready for his match that he has far more stakes in. The match straight up followed.
3. DDP is not even employed by AEW, so yeah, I think he shows up by invitation. DDP is a legeng, if he shows up, you let him in the door.
1. Do we know he wasn't in the building? And was Nakazawa really in a position where he needed back-up? He lost fair and square and that was it. It's not like Ambrose beat him up after the match.
2. Well then the announcers have done a terrible job of letting us know about this story. Their job is to explain things to me so that it doesn't feel like people do/don't show up only when it serves the needs of the story the booker is trying to tell.
3. So what you're trying to tell me is that they randomly invite DDP to certain shows all over the country, and that every time they kayfabe invite him to a show it just happens to be a show where they non-kayfabe need him for a segment?
cero2k wrote:
Nov 15th, '19, 15:57
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 18:14
Because the point of a PPV is to resolve things. You milk things on TV to lead to the PPV. We're paying money for the blow-off. AEW's goal should not be to be like WWE was this spring where 90% of the feuds just keep going from PPV to PPV.

And if you're against "resolving things so quickly when you can milk it," why weren't you unhappy with how quickly they had MJF reveal he screwed Cody instead of spending weeks milking whether or not he had Cody's best interests in mind?
Some things should end, and some things should escalate, and some things should be born out of the event. This isn't Impact or NXT with revolving doors, if they end everything at every ppv, they're gonna run out of stories really quick.

The MJF/Cody thing has been going on almost all year, at least since Double or Nothing. I'm perfectly ok with this paying off right here after months of teases.
You're not wrong that things should end when they end, but when you're only doing four PPVs a year (which I believe is what either Tony or Cody said the plan was), you really should be trying to end things at the PPV- or at least move them to the next chapter- like NXT does.
And your memory with the MJF/Cody thing is VERY wrong. It has been going on for three months (four at most), not a year. It started when Cody was looking for someone to back him up at All Out, which happened at the end of August. And there were only two teases, one minor one at the All Out, and the one on TV with the Inner Circle. That's it.
cero2k wrote:
Nov 15th, '19, 15:57
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 18:14
It's not about getting pops. If it was, every show where WWE just trots out the nostalgia acts would be the best show ever. It's about telling your stories effectively, and sticking a comedy cameo in the middle of a deadly serious brawl is the opposite of that.
It's about making money, and you know what movies make the most money? those stupid Marvel movies with jokes during their climatic wars for human kind. Just be happy that the wrestlers don't start playing shitty 80's music out of nowhere. OC showing up like this didn't just suddenly mean that the Bucks vs PnP wasn't a serious brawl, it was just a quick comedic relief. It didn't hurt anything.
It hurt the seriousness of the situation. Also, wrestling and movies are not comparable at the box office, because of wrestling's live nature. Wrestling needs to be more compelling to make sure you block off that Friday/Saturday/Sunday night to devote to going to the live show/buying the PPV/watching their over-the-top service. I stayed spoiler-free for three days for the latest Avengers movie and saw it on Monday afternoon. When I could get a ticket in a theater that wouldn't be packed full and I wouldn't have to wait forever to take a piss afterwards.

Things like the Orange Cassidy cameo and someone slowly closing a door in the middle of a brawl because they're creeped out by him are exactly the sort of things that build up over time until you've got a WWE-like situation where so much of it is about the ha-ha because the ha-ha gets an easy pop.

And yes, I wish those movies would cut down on the wise-cracking in the middle of a fight by characters who it doesn't fit (i.e., leave it to Spiderman, Deadpool, Gambit, Jubilee, etc. ULTRON should not be making wisecracks).

cero2k wrote:
Nov 15th, '19, 15:57
And yes, the nostalgia shows are the ones with the most ratings in WWE.
And then all of those new viewers leave the next week because they weren't given anything good to capture their interest, and the returns have been diminishing on the nostalgia over the years. Look at the Australia stadium show that they pushed like a normal PPV with Hunter vs. Taker. Was viewership for that show any better than the PPV the month before?
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Re: BRM Reviews the 11/13/2019 Dynamite

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 17th, '19, 10:14

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 16th, '19, 17:26
cero2k wrote:
Nov 15th, '19, 15:20
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 14th, '19, 17:49

This explanation I am mostly fine with. My issue is a non-kayfbae one. Why are we having someone get pinned in a match where no one would bat an eyelash if it was just a usual battle royale? Hell, if this thing is a championship (which they seem to be sating that it is), why not do the "enter in groups" style of battle royale that they have used for the other singles championships?
Apparently I missed that the one-on-one match happens on the following week, at least that's what Alvarez said. If that is the case, then it really wouldn't be a pinfall on a battle royal, just a battle royal that ends slightly sooner than normal
I, too, apparently missed that detail, so I'm not sure where Alvarez is getting it from (or maybe the graphic missed that detail). If that's what they're doing, I like it even less, just because you're going to give us a match without a real conclusion. It would be better to do two qualifiers. Hell, they can still be battle royales and you give your wrestles some time to stretch a different set of creative muscles by doing two six-person battle royales, where they can do more than just a bunch of punch-kick in the corner while one spot happens at a time in the middle.
Dave (at least as of the time the Observer came out) also seems to be under the impression that this is just one match, not two.
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