BRM Reviews the 12/2/2020 Dynamite (Winter is Coming)... you're going to want to avoid spoilers for this one!

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BRM Reviews the 12/2/2020 Dynamite (Winter is Coming)... you're going to want to avoid spoilers for this one!

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 2nd, '20, 22:11

DYNAMITE DIAMOND BATTLE ROYALE- 7/10
Justin Roberts said that the winner of next week’s match between the final two here tonight would get the Dynamite diamond ring. So does that mean that MJF is giving the ring up? Ah. That promo tells us that he is (and that he wants Sammy Guevara or Wardlow to win). It would have been better to do this promo last week so that we didn’t have to cut away from the beginning of the battle royale. I know it’s just a battle royale, but doing this made all of the guys in the ring feel like geeks compared to MJF because we cut away from their match for a goofy MJF promo.


Just to make it a subsection, first let’s deal with sh*t that just generically annoyed me:
Matt Hardy eliminated Isaiah Kassidy. Tony Schiavone treated this like some kind of betrayal, even though it’s battle royale and there was no alliance between these guys.
Jim Ross is insistent that the issue between Scorpio Sky and Shawn Spears “must be settled one on one, in this very ring.” You know… in case anyone thought a good idea to settle their differences would be to have them each recruit a team and play a game of baseball.
When Matt Hardy and Marq Quen eliminated John Silver, the crowd booed loudly. They don’t care about their babyfaces, but they sure do love their clowns.
Excalibur said that Matt Hardy had been displaying an “elitist attitude lately.” I have no idea what he’s talking about.

Okay, now for some actual analysis of the match. There is quite a bit to talk about here, and usually when I have to say that coming out of a battle royale, it’s a good sign because it means a lot of storyline things or nice little touches happened.
This battle royale had a nice little theme of teamwork running through it, bookended by two bits of possible betrayal (Matt with Kassidy and MJF with Sammy Guevara). What makes the MJF scenario more morally dubious than Matt’s is that there was clearly a formal alliance with the Inner Circle members. I also loved that the Sammy/MJF thing was done in such a way that MJF has real plausible deniability. The tease of MJF vs. Wardlow was also a good thing to do here.
The other bit of teamwork here was them advancing the storyline of the Dark Order working with Adam Page. They even had the Dark Order stop Page from hitting the floor at one point. This was a good use of a battle royale, but the fact that the key elements that would make Page joining them plausible (Page’s alcoholism and sense of despair at losing to Omega) have been totally missing from the portrayal here makes it impossible for me to care about this.
Having all three Inner Circle guys have to work together to eliminate Miro made Miro finally start to look like the beast he should be.
Having Spears eliminate Sydal was a nice little callback to the previous battle royale. The bit with Spears and Sky, on the other hand, was not good. It’s a battle royale. Why not just come to the ring with your glove already loaded? Also, I’m sure I’m supposed to feel bad for Scorpio Sky for being knocked out by someone he had already eliminated, but last night on Dark he decided that he would prove some sort of point to Shawn Spears by attacking an innocent person while Spears was standing right there, so I no longer have sympathy for Mr. Sky.
I’ve said a lot of times that if I was AEW, I would attempt to eliminate from my product any of the bullsh*t that makes fans roll their eyes at WWE. Part of that is the ridiculous loopholes in WWE battle royale rules. Stuff like people just staying on the outside forever- both voluntarily or because they get hurt- or clearly being knocked out of the ring and off the apron but it not counting because some outside object stops their feet from touching the floor, etc. All of that stuff was on display here. I’m going to give AEW a pass here because other than Spears hanging out on the floor, I thought that the inclusion of all of those elements served a necessary purpose (advancing the Page/Dark Order storyline, allowing for the tease of Wardlow vs. MJF without having to deliver it), but it’s something I think AEW should make a strong effort to avoid the next time they do a battle royale.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- good
Orange Cassidy winning and Best Friends coming out to celebrate with him provided a fine excuse for the Video Game Geeks to come out and yell at them, giving us a little touchstone for that feud.

FRANKIE KAZARIAN vs. CHRIS JERICHO (w/Jake Hager & Ortiz)- 6.5/10
These guys are actually older than Hogan and Piper were for Age in the Cage (Kaz by a little bit, Jericho by several years) and Daniels, who Jericho faced last week, is even older than Kaz. It’s not age that’s the factor; it’s work ethic.
Aubrey Edwards watched Hager clearly grab Kaz’s ankle and try to pull him off the apron, and didn’t do sh*t. Eventually we got to a spot where Kaz had Jericho in the Walls of Jericho and MJF came out with a towel and teased throwing it in. Sammy Guevara came out to stop him. Jericho got out of it and caught Sammy with the towel and was upset with him. Jericho won soon after with a Judas Effect.
This is exactly the sort of thing I wish AEW would learn not to do. Yes, it’s a callback to MJF throwing the towel in on Cody… but that spot made sense because there was something on the line for Cody, and thus something to be gained for MJF by doing so. What was on the line here? If MJF throws in the towel, Jericho loses a random undercard match. That’s it. Why would that be worth MJF exposing the fact that he is secretly trying to undermine Jericho? Using a literary device is only artistic if you actually know how to use it.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- The Inner Circle argued afterwards. Jericho grabbed a mic and told them that next week they would make a decision to either work together or break up forever. MJF has been with the group for less than a month and has only been arguing with Sammy, and yet Jericho is already so annoyed that he demands this be dealt with.
And if that wasn’t silly enough, why would they need to break the group up forever? Wouldn’t a better solution be to just expel either Sammy or MJF and Wardlow?

ALEX MARVEZ INTERVIEWS THE YOUNG BUCKS- bad
The first thing the Young Bucks say to Alex Marvez is “Remember when we superkicked you right in the face?” This was not immediately followed up with a heartfelt apology for doing or (or even with an insincere one), so the Young Bucks are just being dicks. How are these two supposed to be likable? At least when TH2 attacks someone, that person is a trained wrestler!
The Bucks said that TH2 didn’t have the record to get a title shot (so apparently that’s relevant now), but they’ll give TH2 a shot if TH2 can beat them next week.

THE ACCLAIMED INTERRUPTED THE YOUNG BUCKS- better
Two dudes showed up and made fun of the Young Bucks and their book via rap. This was a distraction so that TH2 could attack the Bucks. Daniels & Kazarian ran them off. The Acclaimed certainly have a lot of personality.

LAYLA HIRSCH vs. DR. BRITT BAKER, DMD (w/Rebel)- 5/10
Layla had the match won, but- like in almost every match of hers I’ve seen- she decided to go to the top rope instead of just going for a pin. AEW tried to give her some cover by having Rebel get involved, but if Layla had just gone for the pin when she had the chance, Rebel wouldn’t have been able to grab the referee’s attention.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- fine
Thunder Rosa attacked Britt for calling her trash earlier. First the referees and then the road agents were required to separate them.

DARBY ALLIN & CODY RHODES (w/Arn Anderson) vs. TEAM TAZ (Ricky Starks & Will Hobbs) (w/Brian Cage & Taz)- 6.75/10
Starks’s shoulder came up on the finish, but otherwise this was very good.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- The heels attacked the babyfaces. Arn Anderson got involved and got beaten up. Dustin came out to help Cody and also got beaten up. Hobbs was about to hit Cody with the FTW Title when the lights went out and a video package played… and STING showed up.
Look… I’m not going to pretend that this isn’t a big get for AEW, but I’m also not going to pretend that I have any interest in anything a sixty-one year-old Sting is going to do in any promotion.
(I would have popped so hard if this was the one time Tony Schiavone decided to be incredulous.)

ALEX MARVEZ INTERVIEWS HIKARU SHIDA- bad
I popped so hard for her dismissing Abadon as “just a girl doing Zombie cosplay,” because that’s exactly what she comes off as. I was about to call this whole promo awesome, but then some sort of metal thing fell off screen and made a sound, and Shida was scared, because our top babyface is scared of the geek doing cosplay. F*ck this company. No one here has any idea how to be a babyface other than Darby Allin and Christopher Daniels.

JON MOXLEY PROMO- AWESOME!
And that Pat Patterson line at the end made me tear up a little bit.

AEW WORLD TITLE MATCH: Jon Moxley(c) vs. Kenny Omega- 8.25/10
Don Callis was on commentary again.
I guess we’re just not doing count-outs here? That seems odd, considering Kenny’s insistence that this not be a brawl outside the ring.
So Moxley hits his finisher… and instead of pinning Omega, he gets chairs and does the “let’s each sit down and take turns hitting each other. WHY?! You were already fighting each other and proving you were tougher! You hit him with your f*cking finisher! And if you want to keep beating him up some more, just pin him first and keep beating on him afterwards!
They wrestled some more and traded big moves, and then we one of those spots that drives me nuts, where Kenny was injured on the outside and all of the referees and doctors are checking on him. Moxley then goes over and starts throwing the referees around and throws Kenny into the ring and starts punching him. Referee Paul Turner starts yelling at Moxley to stop… but doesn’t actually take any steps to MAKE HIM STOP. Dude… either Kenny is too injured to continue and you should award the match to Moxley by stoppage, or Moxley is preventing the doctors from checking on someone and he should be disqualified!
This is important because everything that happens next does not happen if Paul Turner did his job instead of playing into this place of overdramatic pro wrestling bullsh*t where he won’t stop the f*cking match because G-d forbid we disappoint the fans by following the rules.
What happened next was Don Callis brought a microphone to the ring and tapped Moxley on the shoulder, so Moxley slugged him. Kenny eventually got the microphone and hit Moxley in the forehead with it (Moxley bled a lot) and then hit a bunch of V-Triggers, hit the One-Winged Angel, and won the title. The announcers all went nuts about how Kenny “broke the gentleman’s agreement” that they had (more on that in a moment), and about how Don Callis “perpetrated a screwjob” and screwed Tony Khan (who was briefly seen yelling at Omega and Callis as they hurried through Gorilla).
This was supposed to be Kenny’s big heel moment, and it was certainly a heel turn, but the details undermine a huge chunk of the story they’re trying to tell.
1. This “gentleman’s agreement” was always idiotic. These guys shouldn’t need an “agreement” not to use weapons because weapons are already illegal! And if the “agreement” was to not make it a brawl, then Moxley already violated it when he spent forever beating Kenny up on the outside earlier in the match.
2. This whole thing doesn’t happen if Moxley isn’t a dumbass and just tries to pin Kenny and follows up on his offense instead of letting Kenny recover so they can play a game of “sit down and take turns hitting each other.” This doesn’t mean that what Kenny didn’t wasn’t wrong, but it does mean that I have a lot less sympathy for Moxley because his own foolishness allowed this to happen.
3. As I said before, this whole thing also doesn’t happen if Paul Turner acts like a proper referee instead of someone whose primary concern is to enhance the drama of the situation. If your character’s actions feel motivated by the needs of the story, you have failed at crafting your story well.

THE SURPRISE AT THE END- Everyone yelled at Kenny and Callis as they left. Alex Marvez stopped them for an interview in the parking lot. He asked them what this was all about, at which point Callis told him he would find out next Tuesday. I had a good hearty laugh at Marvez immediately responding “but Dynamite is on Wednesday!” even though AEW has a show they do every week on Tuesdays. Callis straightened it out for him but telling him that he should tune in Impact Wrestling.
This was certainly an attention-grabber, and to be willing to go so far as to have your guy appear on someone else’s show in a publicized manner like this is and bring their product attention is not something we’ve seen since the ROH-CZW feud. It’s a very brave and bold thing for AEW to be doing. I’m not sure that AEW gets more out of this than TNA, and thus my instinct as AEW would have been to not do it, but if AEW thinks that TNA is a sufficient number of levels below them that TNA getting more out of this than AEW does won’t actually wind up as a net negative for them, I guess it’s a good idea.



This… was certainly a big show from AEW. The main event was really the only thing that delivered in a big way, but the show felt important throughout, and I don’t think there is really anything that can happen in wrestling over the next few weeks that won’t make AEW (and Impact) the promotion everyone is talking about. My problems with AEW Creative remain. I guess my hope for them is that they don’t squander the new eyeballs tonight’s show will surely grab by continuing to tell their stories so sloppily.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/2/2020 Dynamite (Winter is Coming)... you're going to want to avoid spoilers for this one!

Post by cero2k » Dec 3rd, '20, 11:19

1. This “gentleman’s agreement” was always idiotic. These guys shouldn’t need an “agreement” not to use weapons because weapons are already illegal! And if the “agreement” was to not make it a brawl, then Moxley already violated it when he spent forever beating Kenny up on the outside earlier in the match.
weapons are illegal, but after 100 years of wrestling, everyone knows that weapons can be used through different means, or that certain tactics like exposed turnbuckles are not technically illegal.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/2/2020 Dynamite (Winter is Coming)... you're going to want to avoid spoilers for this one!

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 3rd, '20, 13:28

cero2k wrote: Dec 3rd, '20, 11:19
1. This “gentleman’s agreement” was always idiotic. These guys shouldn’t need an “agreement” not to use weapons because weapons are already illegal! And if the “agreement” was to not make it a brawl, then Moxley already violated it when he spent forever beating Kenny up on the outside earlier in the match.
weapons are illegal, but after 100 years of wrestling, everyone knows that weapons can be used through different means, or that certain tactics like exposed turnbuckles are not technically illegal.
That's a better explanation, but they made a big deal out if the agreement being to "keep it between the ropes." The gentleman's agreement the way you frame it should have been a given between babyfaces, and the very stipulation of the match (or rather, the lack thereof) already does that.
But even if we go with your explanation, Moxley still violated it first by throwing Kenny into things on the outside.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/2/2020 Dynamite (Winter is Coming)... you're going to want to avoid spoilers for this one!

Post by Thelone » Dec 4th, '20, 12:36

Not sure what to think of Sting coming in. If they brought him in to fill the GM role à la Regal in NXT, then it's fine. If not, I'm not sure what he can bring to the table. AEW is pretty bad at using legends/managers effectively, but we'll see I guess.

Anyway, back to bitching uncontrollably.

Am I the only one who feels like Omega finally winning the belt ended up secondary to Sting and even the Impact deal it's tied to? They put too much into this show instead of spreading it out over 2-3 weeks, and the big coronation of their alledged top star is the third thing people talk about after the show.

Going back to the Stinger, why am I not surprised he's involved in the Cody storyline like almost all the other managers/legends AEW brought in? Just food for thought...

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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/2/2020 Dynamite (Winter is Coming)... you're going to want to avoid spoilers for this one!

Post by cero2k » Dec 4th, '20, 17:10

Thelone wrote: Dec 4th, '20, 12:36 Not sure what to think of Sting coming in. If they brought him in to fill the GM role à la Regal in NXT, then it's fine. If not, I'm not sure what he can bring to the table. AEW is pretty bad at using legends/managers effectively, but we'll see I guess.
GM Sting is a terrible idea, we've seen it before. I for one like what they do with all their old people, but it's Sting that makes me wonder the most, he shouldn't be a manager or second to anyone having a match.
Thelone wrote: Dec 4th, '20, 12:36 Am I the only one who feels like Omega finally winning the belt ended up secondary to Sting and even the Impact deal it's tied to? They put too much into this show instead of spreading it out over 2-3 weeks, and the big coronation of their alledged top star is the third thing people talk about after the show.
Yes and no, to me personally, it wasn't overshadowed by Sting, that night I couldn't even remember Sting after the Omega angle. As for Impact, (my marriage to impact aside), they both go hand-by-hand, Omega having the title in itself doesn't have to be the biggest deal IMO because it's heel Omega, and the means of acquisition/fallout sometimes take the focus. To me Omega winning the title is meaningless if he's a heel and we can't celebrate it, his chase wasn't long and hard, he's not the best bout machine right now. To me the bigger story is "Mox finally lost" than "Omega won".
Thelone wrote: Dec 4th, '20, 12:36 Going back to the Stinger, why am I not surprised he's involved in the Cody storyline like almost all the other managers/legends AEW brought in? Just food for thought...
It's were it makes more sense, he'd had no place with Mox/Omega, or The Inner Circle, Lucha Bros vs Kingston, or the tag titles. Him mentoring Darby Allin seems like a good (and probably only) place for him.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/2/2020 Dynamite (Winter is Coming)... you're going to want to avoid spoilers for this one!

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 5th, '20, 17:19

cero2k wrote: Dec 4th, '20, 17:10
Thelone wrote: Dec 4th, '20, 12:36 Not sure what to think of Sting coming in. If they brought him in to fill the GM role à la Regal in NXT, then it's fine. If not, I'm not sure what he can bring to the table. AEW is pretty bad at using legends/managers effectively, but we'll see I guess.
GM Sting is a terrible idea, we've seen it before. I for one like what they do with all their old people, but it's Sting that makes me wonder the most, he shouldn't be a manager or second to anyone having a match.
If he's not wrestling, i don't think he fits anywhere, and even if he is wrestling... I don't think that's really going to help because I just can't believe that people are going to care about Sting wrestling at this point when it's not like he was burning the house down (or even come close to it) in WWE or even TNA before that for the past decade. What was his last great match? Against AJ at BFG 2009?
cero2k wrote: Dec 4th, '20, 17:10
Thelone wrote: Dec 4th, '20, 12:36 Am I the only one who feels like Omega finally winning the belt ended up secondary to Sting and even the Impact deal it's tied to? They put too much into this show instead of spreading it out over 2-3 weeks, and the big coronation of their alledged top star is the third thing people talk about after the show.
Yes and no, to me personally, it wasn't overshadowed by Sting, that night I couldn't even remember Sting after the Omega angle.
Sting is definitely the afterthought there.
cero2k wrote: Dec 4th, '20, 17:10 As for Impact, (my marriage to impact aside), they both go hand-by-hand, Omega having the title in itself doesn't have to be the biggest deal IMO because it's heel Omega, and the means of acquisition/fallout sometimes take the focus. To me Omega winning the title is meaningless if he's a heel and we can't celebrate it, his chase wasn't long and hard, he's not the best bout machine right now. To me the bigger story is "Mox finally lost" than "Omega won".
If he holds the belt for any length of time, it will take some VERY careful storytelling to get a babyface Omega victory ti feel like a big first moment, and so far, AEW have not shown the ability to tell stories carefully.
cero2k wrote: Dec 4th, '20, 17:10
Thelone wrote: Dec 4th, '20, 12:36 Going back to the Stinger, why am I not surprised he's involved in the Cody storyline like almost all the other managers/legends AEW brought in? Just food for thought...
It's were it makes more sense, he'd had no place with Mox/Omega, or The Inner Circle, Lucha Bros vs Kingston, or the tag titles. Him mentoring Darby Allin seems like a good (and probably only) place for him.
I don't think Darby works with- or even needs- a mentor, and especially not Sting. What's the connection, besides the superficial "they both paint their faces and don't talk." They are motivated by entirely different things, wrestle completely different styles, and lead completely different kayfabe lives outside of wrestling.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/2/2020 Dynamite (Winter is Coming)... you're going to want to avoid spoilers for this one!

Post by Thelone » Dec 6th, '20, 17:21

cero2k wrote: Dec 4th, '20, 17:10GM Sting is a terrible idea, we've seen it before. I for one like what they do with all their old people, but it's Sting that makes me wonder the most, he shouldn't be a manager or second to anyone having a match.
I'm not saying it's a good idea, but what can you really do with him at this point?
Yes and no, to me personally, it wasn't overshadowed by Sting, that night I couldn't even remember Sting after the Omega angle. As for Impact, (my marriage to impact aside), they both go hand-by-hand, Omega having the title in itself doesn't have to be the biggest deal IMO because it's heel Omega, and the means of acquisition/fallout sometimes take the focus. To me Omega winning the title is meaningless if he's a heel and we can't celebrate it, his chase wasn't long and hard, he's not the best bout machine right now. To me the bigger story is "Mox finally lost" than "Omega won".
Moxley's reign has been completely underwhelming. Sure, you can put it on THE PLAGUE and the no-crowd era, but Omega was basically his first "real" opponent who had an actual shot at winning. It's been a long string of monsters of the month + MJF/Allin, none of them believable to beat Moxley.
It's were it makes more sense, he'd had no place with Mox/Omega, or The Inner Circle, Lucha Bros vs Kingston, or the tag titles. Him mentoring Darby Allin seems like a good (and probably only) place for him.
But, why?

Isn't Allin hanging around in the rafters a fairly new "thing" for him (almost like he started doing it when they signed Sting or something)? Judging by the countless videos of him doing dumb stunts we've seen on Dynamite, you'd think Johnny Knoxville would make a lot more sense than Sting.

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Re: BRM Reviews the 12/2/2020 Dynamite (Winter is Coming)... you're going to want to avoid spoilers for this one!

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 6th, '20, 18:22

Thelone wrote: Dec 6th, '20, 17:21
cero2k wrote: Dec 4th, '20, 17:10Yes and no, to me personally, it wasn't overshadowed by Sting, that night I couldn't even remember Sting after the Omega angle. As for Impact, (my marriage to impact aside), they both go hand-by-hand, Omega having the title in itself doesn't have to be the biggest deal IMO because it's heel Omega, and the means of acquisition/fallout sometimes take the focus. To me Omega winning the title is meaningless if he's a heel and we can't celebrate it, his chase wasn't long and hard, he's not the best bout machine right now. To me the bigger story is "Mox finally lost" than "Omega won".
Moxley's reign has been completely underwhelming. Sure, you can put it on THE PLAGUE and the no-crowd era, but Omega was basically his first "real" opponent who had an actual shot at winning. It's been a long string of monsters of the month + MJF/Allin, none of them believable to beat Moxley.

And pretty much all of the matches were brawls. Barely any wrestling matches other than Omega, which not only made it repetitive, but almost felt like they were type-casting Moxley... which might have been on purpose in advance of this Omega match, but I think that it has made Moxley come across as not a "complete" wrestler the way that Jericho or Page or Cody or Omega or even MJF have come across.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

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