BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

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BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 11th, '21, 19:49

AEW TNT TITLE MATCH: Darby Allin(c) vs. Joey Janela- 7/10
The recap of KENTA attacking Moxley and plugging the main event (KENTA & Omega vs. Moxley & Archer) was important, but cutting away from Janela’s entrance to do it made this match look unimportant. Why not open with the quick recap and announcement of the main event and then do the entrances for the TNT Title match?
I still have no idea what Janela did to earn this title shot. That issue aside, this was a great opener. It was spotty, yes, but the spots were paced well so it didn’t feel egregious. This felt like your typical PWG opener.
Excalibur noted that Team Taz didn’t follow through on their threat to interfere. He did a good job of making it seem like he was calling them cowards while actually signposting for us that they would do something later.

MOXLEY PROMO- great… but now I’m a little confused
Moxley’s promo was his typical greatness, but while the announcers have been calling tonight’s main event “falls count anywhere, no disqualifications,” Moxley said that it was “unsanctioned,” which, in AEW means that it doesn’t count towards your record. The announcers, however, have not said this, and that seems like an important point for them to miss (because the records are supposed to matter, after all).
(And if the main event is unsanctioned, I think that’s the final nail in the coffin for all of the arguments that were brought against me when I criticized AEW making the first Moxley vs. Omega match unsanctioned (the only other such match in AEW history until tonight) as being an ass-pull storyline reason for Moxley to get upset at Tony Khan rather than anything that would have any sort of logical consistency to it).

SAMMY GUEVARA TAKES A CAMERA CREW TO THE INNER CIRCLE’S LOKER ROOM- bad
Everyone but Jericho is there. Sammy asks for a minute alone with MJF, and the others comply. Sammy accuses MJF of trying to take over the Inner Circle. MJF not-very-surreptitiously puts his phone on the table and then accuses Sammy of hating playing second fiddle to Jericho and trying to take over the Inner Circle (in other words, exactly what MJF is doing). Sammy says “you think I hate Chris Jericho?” and MJF is all smug and says “that’s exactly what I want you to say” and picks his phone up. Sammy realizes that he has been recorded and grabs MJF’s phone and smashes it against the wall, then punches MJF in the stomach.
The problem with this segment is that while we’re supposed to see MJF as this sort of master tactician, he’s actually quite stupid, as no master tactician would reveal his plan the way MJF did here… and even if MJF didn’t reveal his plan like an idiot, the plan to frame Sammy would have failed because THERE IS A CAMERA THERE RECORDING THE WHOLE THING!

CEZAR BONONI & “PRETTY” PETER AVALON vs. THE NIGHTMARE FAMILY (Cody Rhodes & Lee Johnson) (w/Arn Anderson)- 6/10
Arn Anderson’s son is at ringside. He is training to be a wrestler. Well… I’m sure he’ll be as relevant to AEW storylines as Taz’s kid has been so far. Cody’s shoulder got worked over and he sold it well. Johnson pinned Avalon with a roll-up for his first win in AEW.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- This was a major example of why AEW fails to gain new viewers.
The announcers made a big deal about this being Johnson’s first win in AEW after months of trying. Dustin and Q.T. Marshall and Cody and Arn all celebrated with him on the stage and Schiavone interviewed him and he cut a great promo about how he was 0-29 going into this match and finally got his first win. That’s a really great story. The problem is that if you’re watching AEW’s only television show (and we know for a fact that the vast majority of Dynamite viewers are not watching Dark), AEW barely did anything to tell it.
There have been 72 episodes of Dynamite so far, plus a handful of PPVs. I have seen every single one of them aside from the Brodie Lee tribute show that was supposedly going to be “non-canon.” That means that I have seen Lee Johnson wrestle a grand total of EIGHT matches, including this one. This is the first time I am seeing him cut a promo, or learning ANYTHING about him. If you want to tell a story about someone finally getting their first win, you have to make that win important by showing us how much he wants it. What AEW did was use him on TV as a jobber once every few months, with nothing distinguishing him from any of the other jobbers until one day he joined Cody’s group and then he just became the jobber that was put in Cody’s group for some reason that was never explained to us and they never spent any time on. And now he’s gotten this big win and I’m supposed to find it to be this big moment, but I don’t because they have done nothing to make me care about Lee Johnson. You can’t just drop people in at the end of a story and expect them to be invested in it.
And dropping things on us like this is something AEW has done constantly over the course of their history, whether it’s storylines like “Daniels & Kaz have decided to split up if they lose” or people picking up wins and so suddenly we’re supposed to think they’re on a hot streak when they show up on Dynamite again even though people just watching Dynamite haven’t seen them do anything, to random schtick like that dumb crap with the Dark Order loving lawnmowers. It’s been almost a year and a half of this now, and they STILL haven’t learned. When you do sh*t like this, people start to feel lost and stop watching the product. It’s hard to gain new viewers if after six weeks they still feel like things are being dropped on them out of nowhere and the announcers and wrestlers are acting like they’re supposed to know something they don’t know.

DASHA GONZALEZ’s INTERVIEWS THE YOUNG BUCKS IS INTERRUPTED BY DOC GALLOWS & KARL ANDERSON- bad
The Bucks asks Gallows & Anderson why they distracted them during the battle royale last week. Gallows & Anderson said they were trying to distract Private Party, who they have heat with (and plugged their title defense against Private Party on TNA’s PPV). In other words (and the Good Brothers were good and brotherly enough to not phrase it this way), the Young Bucks are idiots for being distracted by their friends coming out to attack someone else.
For some reason, the Bucks got fired up and decided that they didn’t want to wait until the PPV to defend their titles. They want to defend their titles next week. Against MJF & Jericho, who won last week’s #1 contendership battle royale, which we were reminded about several times during this segment?
Of course not! That would make logical sense, and we can’t have any of that silly logic in a Young Bucks segment. They’re going to defend their titles against Santana & Ortiz, who are apparently a “highly-ranked” team, despite the fact that they haven’t beaten anyone above the bottom of the undercard since a win over Best Friends back on September 2nd, and they didn’t even win that match cleanly. They’re last clean win over a non-bottom of the barrel team was SEVEN MONTHS AGO (in a three-way over Private Party and SCU). But they’re somehow a “highly-ranked” team and are getting a title shot next week.
They talked up what a big number the Bucks vs. LAX would do, so they had better hope they deliver or else they’ll look really bad. Then they did a bunch of dumb gaga before 2-Sweeting each other, mercifully bringing this segment to an end.

Remember that angle a few weeks ago where the Bucks went to Omega’s house and Don Callis claimed they attacked him? If the Bucks didn’t actually attack Callis, what did happen? Did they just yell at him and leave and Callis was wearing make-up? Did Callis trip while trying to get away from them and that’s why his face was injured? It’d be nice to have the Bucks actually tell their side of the story.
Just a stray thought. Sorry.

DASHA’S INTERVIEW WITH ADAM PAGE IS INTERRUPTED BY MATT HARDY- bad
Dasha clearly doesn’t listen to anything Adam Page says, because despite Page explicitly ruling it out last week (and ruling out joining a different faction a few weeks ago), she asks him if him and Matt Hardy winning last week means they might to form a tag team. Page was very polite in saying no. Matt showed up and offered to take Page out for drinks to celebrate their win last week. Page goes to get his coat. Don’t you two have to be at Dynamite? Blowing off work to go drinking is the kind of thing that usually gets people fired.
Page goes to leave but is accosted by the Dork Order. They’re sad because he’s hanging out with Matt Hardy but won’t hang out with them. Page was ashamed. I don’t understand why I’m supposed to want to see Adam Page hang out with anyone. I want to see him beat his alcoholism and be in wrestling matches.

RYAN NEMETH vs. PAC (w/Rey Fenix)- no rating, meh squash
The squash itself was fine, but Pac not letting the Brutalizer go at the end is confusing. He has been portrayed as a babyface ever since his return, and the announcers are clearly positioning him to feud with Omega. If this is heel vs. heel (and that’s what it appears to be to me), then the announcers should portray it as such, but they’re portraying Pac as a total babyface.

MIRO RECAPS THE WEDDING- meh
This time they managed to get footage of Chuck cuffing Miro’s leg to rope, so we now know that it didn’t happen by magic. That’s one question answered, but now how about answering how Chuck managed to get a handcuff around Miro’s ankle without Miro noticing?
Miro vowed revenge. Then we got a shot of Chuck Taylor & Orange Cassidy being smug. That annoyed me.


DASHA INTERVIEWS THE INNER CIRLCE- bad
Apparently Jericho hasn’t been watching tonight’s show because he thinks he and MJF are the #1 contenders even though it’s LAX getting the title shot next week. MJF showed up overselling his ribs and telling Jericho that Sammy attacked him, and Jericho didn’t know about this, either. Two members of his group get into a fight earlier today in front of a camera and it was broadcast on national TV half an hour ago, and Jericho still doesn’t know about it?
Jericho says they have a match to worry about.

THE ACCLAIMED vs. THE INNER CIRCLE (Chris Jericho & MJF (w/the Inner Circle)- 5/10
MJF sold his ribs a lot, while the announcers doubted the severity of his injuries. Sammy was the only member of the Inner Circle not at ringside for this match). Jericho & MJF won after interference, which a top act really shouldn’t need against the Acclaimed.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- very good
Sammy Guevara came out and told Jericho face to face that he was quitting the Inner Circle, like he said he would if one more thing happened with MJF. This was the sort of actual babyface turn that I’ve been looking for with Sammy.

ALEX MARVEZ INTERVIEWS SAMMY GUEVARA ON HIS WAY OUT OF THE BUILDING- bad
Apparently Dasha isn’t the only interviewer in AEW who pays no attention to the show, because he asked Sammy “why did you leave the Inner Circle,” despite 1) it being obvious to anyone who saw the earlier segment that AIRED ON NATIONAL TV ON THE SHOW MARVEZ WORKS AT, and 2) the fact that SAMMY JUST EXPLAINED THIS THREE MINUTES AGO.
Sammy said that he needs to take some time off to “refocus,” which is code for “I’m coming back as a babyface.”

AEW CAMERAS HAVE FOLLOWED MATT HARDY & ADAM PAGE TO A BAR-
Matt offers to be Adam Page’s manager. As I noted last week, this arrangement makes a lot more sense. Page agrees, and Matt tells the cameraman that he asked for the cameraman to be here so that he could have evidence that Page signed this contract of his own free will.
1. That goes against Excalibur’s statement that “our cameras have ‘caught up with’ Adam Page & Matt Hardy.
2. If Matt is to be believed, I guess they let him know when he was on the air and he waited until now to offer Page a contract. Wouldn’t it have made a lot more sense for Matt to just hire his own cameraman, rather than assume that 1) AEW would be able to spare one and 2) that Page would be drunk enough to agree to sign the contract while they were on the air.
3. A quick Google search reveals that a contract signed while intoxicated is not legally enforceable, so Matt’s plan to sign Page to this exploitative contract while Page is drunk won’t work anyway.
4. Either way, Matt is a f*cking idiot for basically admitting to the camera that he got Page drunk to convince him to sign a contract he knew Page would be angry about and regret. He gains NO BENEFIT from revealing this information!

TONY SCHIAVONE’S INTERVIEW WITH STING IS INTERRUPTED BY TEAM TAZ REVEALING THAT THEY HAVE KIDNAPPED DARBY ALLIN, TIED HIM IN A BODY BAG, AND ARE GOING TO DRAG HIM BEHIND THEIR CAR- People have legitimately been murdered in this manner (well… minus the body bag) so this is something that management REALLY needs to punish them for.
Sting strolled off a brisk pace after them. Excalibur referred to this as “hot pursuit,” which was laughable. That being said, they’re in a car and he’s on foot, so it’s a little hard for me to blame Sting for not moving with urgency when he doesn’t have a chance of catching them.

EARLIER TODAY, ALEX MARVEZ FOUND KENNY OMEGA ON THE GOLF COURSE- meh
Marvez asks Kenny what he is doing on the golf course when he has a huge match tonight. The dude is clearly relaxing during his off-hours. It is completely inappropriate for Marvez to show up, uninvited, with a camera crew. It’s f*cking stalking!
Kenny was fine here, but this segment was not worth the time. Leyla Hirsch vs. Thunder Rosa or MJF & Jericho vs. The Acclaimed would have made better use of it.
Tony Schiavone got upset because they “stranded” Marvez on the golf course, but my understanding is that Marvez didn’t show up with them, so he either had is own golf cart or is perfectly capable of walking, so they’re not really stranding him, are they?

AEW WOMEN’S WORLD TITLE ELIMINATOR TOURNAMENT FIRST ROUND MATCH: Leyla Hirsch vs. Thunder Rosa- 6.75/10
Thunder Rosa cut a fine in-set promo, but they should have aired it before the match, not during (ditto for the one in MJF & Jericho vs. the Acclaimed, but at least no action happened during that one). I really liked this match, but it seemed to me that the technical wrestler got out-wrestled and the luchadora got out-lucha-ed, which was weird. Also, Leyla Hirsch needs to stop trying that moonsault if she’s never going to hit it, or else she looks like an idiot.

TONY SCHIAVONE INTERVIEWS JUNGLE BOY ABOUT THE KIDNAPPING OF MARKO STUNT- decent
They did note that FTR let Marko go, so that’s good. Jungle Boy vowed to get revenge.

Announced for next week is the Bucks defending the titles against LAX, TH2 & Chaos Project vs. the Matt Hardy faction, Serena Deeb vs. Riho in an eliminator tournament match, FTR vs. Matt & Mike Sydal, and more talking by Sting.

FALLS COUNT ANYWHERE MATCH: Jon Moxley & Lance Archer (w/Jake “The Snake” Roberts) vs. KENTA & Kenny Omega (w/Don Callis)- 9/10
They had a big, wild, crazy awesome brawl, that, for some unknown reason, we cut away from in the middle to see a recap package of the match that was still in progress. That was one of three missteps in this match. The other two were the pointless comedy spot with Peter Avalon getting beaten up for no reason, and old-ass, immobile Jake Roberts taking out Karl Anderson with a clothesline. The interference finish was a little frustrating, but I don’t hate it. I do, however, wonder why no one from AEW came out to fight off Gallows & Anderson, considering everything they have done in their short time here in AEW.


This was a much better episode of Impact than usual, elevated great action all up and down the card, and a few good promos, but the usual logical holes are still there, and I don’t think they’ll ever go away at this point. AEW is an alternative to WWE in some ways, but in other ways, it’s just more of the same.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by NWK2000 » Feb 12th, '21, 08:12

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 11th, '21, 19:49

This was a much better episode of Impact than usual,
Freudian Slip there red?
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 12th, '21, 11:45

NWK2000 wrote: Feb 12th, '21, 08:12
Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 11th, '21, 19:49

This was a much better episode of Impact than usual,
Freudian Slip there red?
Yeah.

But can you blame me?

Great young talents and the potential to be an alternative to WWE and support from the Network undermined by arrogant booking incompetence?
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 12th, '21, 13:00

Apparently I missed Adam Page swapping the contract out for a different one that Matt signed. Per Todd Martin, a shoot lawyer, this contract is still invalid because Matt signed it under the pretense that it was something else.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by cero2k » Feb 12th, '21, 17:15

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 11th, '21, 19:49
AEW CAMERAS HAVE FOLLOWED MATT HARDY & ADAM PAGE TO A BAR-
Matt offers to be Adam Page’s manager. As I noted last week, this arrangement makes a lot more sense. Page agrees, and Matt tells the cameraman that he asked for the cameraman to be here so that he could have evidence that Page signed this contract of his own free will.
1. That goes against Excalibur’s statement that “our cameras have ‘caught up with’ Adam Page & Matt Hardy.
2. If Matt is to be believed, I guess they let him know when he was on the air and he waited until now to offer Page a contract. Wouldn’t it have made a lot more sense for Matt to just hire his own cameraman, rather than assume that 1) AEW would be able to spare one and 2) that Page would be drunk enough to agree to sign the contract while they were on the air.
3. A quick Google search reveals that a contract signed while intoxicated is not legally enforceable, so Matt’s plan to sign Page to this exploitative contract while Page is drunk won’t work anyway.
4. Either way, Matt is a f*cking idiot for basically admitting to the camera that he got Page drunk to convince him to sign a contract he knew Page would be angry about and regret. He gains NO BENEFIT from revealing this information!
I didn't watch it, but per some recaps that I saw, Page didn't sign Matt's contract, apparently Page switched the contracts on Hardy while he wasn't looking, and so Page got Matt to sign without paying attention.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by NWK2000 » Feb 12th, '21, 18:23

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 12th, '21, 11:45
NWK2000 wrote: Feb 12th, '21, 08:12
Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 11th, '21, 19:49

This was a much better episode of Impact than usual,
Freudian Slip there red?
Yeah.

But can you blame me?

Great young talents and the potential to be an alternative to WWE and support from the Network undermined by arrogant booking incompetence?
I don't feel like AEW's midcard is as segregated from the main event as the X-Division was during TNA's heyday. The segments are similar but I just assume all wrestlers are mentally deficient or criminally insane in kayfabe.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 14th, '21, 01:36

NWK2000 wrote: Feb 12th, '21, 18:23
Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 12th, '21, 11:45
NWK2000 wrote: Feb 12th, '21, 08:12
Freudian Slip there red?
Yeah.

But can you blame me?

Great young talents and the potential to be an alternative to WWE and support from the Network undermined by arrogant booking incompetence?
I don't feel like AEW's midcard is as segregated from the main event as the X-Division was during TNA's heyday. The segments are similar but I just assume all wrestlers are mentally deficient or criminally insane in kayfabe.
During TNA's heyday, they segregated the X-Division specifically to make it feel different. Then various bookers not named Scott D'Amore came in and had no idea what to do with it, so it became an undercard thing because the guys involved were booked like undercarders.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 14th, '21, 15:48

Lance Storm pointed out that the stipulation of last week's battle royale for the Bucks was that if they won, they got to pick their challengers. The Bucks lost...and then this week they just picked their own challengers.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by cero2k » Feb 15th, '21, 08:41

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 14th, '21, 15:48 Lance Storm pointed out that the stipulation of last week's battle royale for the Bucks was that if they won, they got to pick their challengers. The Bucks lost...and then this week they just picked their own challengers.
the stipulation was for Revolution PPV, not Dynamite. Loophole, realistically, champions have always been able to pick, and this applies to pretty much every promotion
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 15th, '21, 19:04

cero2k wrote: Feb 15th, '21, 08:41
Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 14th, '21, 15:48 Lance Storm pointed out that the stipulation of last week's battle royale for the Bucks was that if they won, they got to pick their challengers. The Bucks lost...and then this week they just picked their own challengers.
the stipulation was for Revolution PPV, not Dynamite. Loophole, realistically, champions have always been able to pick, and this applies to pretty much every promotion
But it shouldn't really apply in a promotion that has set rankings of contenders.

Also, if the Bucks could have just given Gallows & Anderson a title shot whenever they wanted, why did they go through the whole exercise of entering a battle royale to have to earn the right to give Gallows & Anderson a title shot?
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by cero2k » Feb 15th, '21, 20:19

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 15th, '21, 19:04
But it shouldn't really apply in a promotion that has set rankings of contenders.

Also, if the Bucks could have just given Gallows & Anderson a title shot whenever they wanted, why did they go through the whole exercise of entering a battle royale to have to earn the right to give Gallows & Anderson a title shot?
the rankings do play into it, I think i heard it in one of Alvarez' shows that champs couldn't give shots to people outside the rankings. This is how most combat sports work, MMA is not always champ vs #1, sometimes they do champ vs #5 while #1 vs #2 happens to set up a bigger show.

plus i don't think the Bucks actually want to give the Good Brothers the shot, my impression is that the Bucks aren't exactly happy with them and were messing with them.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 15th, '21, 21:42

cero2k wrote: Feb 15th, '21, 20:19
Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 15th, '21, 19:04
But it shouldn't really apply in a promotion that has set rankings of contenders.

Also, if the Bucks could have just given Gallows & Anderson a title shot whenever they wanted, why did they go through the whole exercise of entering a battle royale to have to earn the right to give Gallows & Anderson a title shot?
the rankings do play into it, I think i heard it in one of Alvarez' shows that champs couldn't give shots to people outside the rankings. This is how most combat sports work, MMA is not always champ vs #1, sometimes they do champ vs #5 while #1 vs #2 happens to set up a bigger show.
1. That was the Bryan & Lance show. It was a theory that even Alvarez admitted was a stretch.
2. Yeah, they might do that in MMA, but that doesn't mean you should do it in pro wrestling. Why have numbered rankings if you're just going to ignore the numbers? Why not have a "contenders ring" like ROH used to have or whatever, where it was an unranked list of guys who were on hot streaks and thus were eligible for a title shot (or, in this case, for the champs to give a title shot to whenever they want)? It's the same idea, but it avoids logical problems like this one (or really any time management tries to give a lower-down team a title shot while giving one to a high-ranked team isn't even discussed)
3. MMA and wrestling are different because of the frequency of the matches. In MMA you have to do that sometimes to get the title defended because guys are only supposed to fight once every six months or whatever and if you're top contender's fight is two months before the champs, you'd rather have the champ defend against a lower contender and then give the top contender the title shot six months from then (so he's off for eight months) rather than have the champ off for ten months (six from his previous fight plus four for the top contender to be able to fight again).


cero2k wrote: Feb 15th, '21, 20:19 plus i don't think the Bucks actually want to give the Good Brothers the shot, my impression is that the Bucks aren't exactly happy with them and were messing with them.
They pretty clearly seemed to want to do so when the Battle Royale was announced, and the Bucks had not been behaving like there was any dissension between them at that point.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by cero2k » Feb 16th, '21, 12:10

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 15th, '21, 21:42
1. That was the Bryan & Lance show. It was a theory that even Alvarez admitted was a stretch.
2. Yeah, they might do that in MMA, but that doesn't mean you should do it in pro wrestling. Why have numbered rankings if you're just going to ignore the numbers? Why not have a "contenders ring" like ROH used to have or whatever, where it was an unranked list of guys who were on hot streaks and thus were eligible for a title shot (or, in this case, for the champs to give a title shot to whenever they want)? It's the same idea, but it avoids logical problems like this one (or really any time management tries to give a lower-down team a title shot while giving one to a high-ranked team isn't even discussed)
3. MMA and wrestling are different because of the frequency of the matches. In MMA you have to do that sometimes to get the title defended because guys are only supposed to fight once every six months or whatever and if you're top contender's fight is two months before the champs, you'd rather have the champ defend against a lower contender and then give the top contender the title shot six months from then (so he's off for eight months) rather than have the champ off for ten months (six from his previous fight plus four for the top contender to be able to fight again).
They don't have to do it like MMA, but I'd argue that it be best to do so, so that MMA fans would agree with AEW's handling of it. For those that NEED for pro wrestling to have a sports presentation, may as well do something that you can compare with real sports and see the similarities.


Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 15th, '21, 21:42 They pretty clearly seemed to want to do so when the Battle Royale was announced, and the Bucks had not been behaving like there was any dissension between them at that point.
There's been dissension between the Bucks and the Good Brothers since they debuted. Not sure what you're seeing that makes you think that they're in the same page.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 16th, '21, 12:54

cero2k wrote: Feb 16th, '21, 12:10
Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 15th, '21, 21:42 They pretty clearly seemed to want to do so when the Battle Royale was announced, and the Bucks had not been behaving like there was any dissension between them at that point.
There's been dissension between the Bucks and the Good Brothers since they debuted. Not sure what you're seeing that makes you think that they're in the same page.
Every single interaction they have had from the first 2 sweet at the end of Gallows & Anderson's debut until the spot in last week's battle royale has been nothing but friendly.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by cero2k » Feb 16th, '21, 13:53

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 16th, '21, 12:54
Every single interaction they have had from the first 2 sweet at the end of Gallows & Anderson's debut until the spot in last week's battle royale has been nothing but friendly.
They're friendly, but I see the Bucks trying to maintain harmony with them, playing it cool, but they seemed quite reluctant to have them around. They had that conversation about Good Brothers abandoning the Bucks on several occasions for money.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 16th, '21, 19:52

cero2k wrote: Feb 16th, '21, 13:53
Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 16th, '21, 12:54
Every single interaction they have had from the first 2 sweet at the end of Gallows & Anderson's debut until the spot in last week's battle royale has been nothing but friendly.
They're friendly, but I see the Bucks trying to maintain harmony with them, playing it cool, but they seemed quite reluctant to have them around. They had that conversation about Good Brothers abandoning the Bucks on several occasions for money.
They have been nowhere near as hostile to Gallows & Anderson as they have to Omega, despite the fact that Omega, Gallows, Anderson, & Callis are clearly aligned with each other. That in and of itself points to them liking Gallows and Anderson.

I also don't see why they would lie to them about wanting to give them a title shot. There is no reason for it. Within a few weeks they would be forced to reveal themselves as liars when they name someone else as the #1 contenders, and for no gain.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 16th, '21, 23:28

cero2k wrote: Feb 16th, '21, 12:10
Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 15th, '21, 21:42
1. That was the Bryan & Lance show. It was a theory that even Alvarez admitted was a stretch.
2. Yeah, they might do that in MMA, but that doesn't mean you should do it in pro wrestling. Why have numbered rankings if you're just going to ignore the numbers? Why not have a "contenders ring" like ROH used to have or whatever, where it was an unranked list of guys who were on hot streaks and thus were eligible for a title shot (or, in this case, for the champs to give a title shot to whenever they want)? It's the same idea, but it avoids logical problems like this one (or really any time management tries to give a lower-down team a title shot while giving one to a high-ranked team isn't even discussed)
3. MMA and wrestling are different because of the frequency of the matches. In MMA you have to do that sometimes to get the title defended because guys are only supposed to fight once every six months or whatever and if you're top contender's fight is two months before the champs, you'd rather have the champ defend against a lower contender and then give the top contender the title shot six months from then (so he's off for eight months) rather than have the champ off for ten months (six from his previous fight plus four for the top contender to be able to fight again).
They don't have to do it like MMA, but I'd argue that it be best to do so, so that MMA fans would agree with AEW's handling of it. For those that NEED for pro wrestling to have a sports presentation, may as well do something that you can compare with real sports and see the similarities.


But that only makes sense in MMA because the fighters don't fight as often as wrestlers wrestle. In a sport where you'd expected to wrestle most weeks, there is no reason to go out and give the #1 team a title shot when there are three teams higher than them, plus another team who just earned a title shot.

And a "sports presentation" doesn't mean borrowing things from other sports. It means treating pro wrestling- with all of pro wrestling's own established conventions- as if it were a sport: With the results of the matches mattering and the promotion do it's best to ensure fair play (including taking steps to rectify unfair play, like booking rematches with stipulations designed to prevent the unfair tactic that marred the first match, because the goal is to find out who is the best).
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by cero2k » Feb 17th, '21, 09:45

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 16th, '21, 19:52
They have been nowhere near as hostile to Gallows & Anderson as they have to Omega, despite the fact that Omega, Gallows, Anderson, & Callis are clearly aligned with each other. That in and of itself points to them liking Gallows and Anderson.

I also don't see why they would lie to them about wanting to give them a title shot. There is no reason for it. Within a few weeks they would be forced to reveal themselves as liars when they name someone else as the #1 contenders, and for no gain.
not hostile, but they're not just 100% in either, they're being careful. It's like when that I super party rager friend shows up after being lost for a year and you're friendly and happy to see them, but you know that at any point they're gonna rage and get you in trouble.

Maybe it wasn't a lie exactly, but I don't think that it was just gonna be free charity. Maybe Bucks wanted a title vs title match.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by cero2k » Feb 17th, '21, 09:50

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 16th, '21, 23:28

But that only makes sense in MMA because the fighters don't fight as often as wrestlers wrestle. In a sport where you'd expected to wrestle most weeks, there is no reason to go out and give the #1 team a title shot when there are three teams higher than them, plus another team who just earned a title shot.

And a "sports presentation" doesn't mean borrowing things from other sports. It means treating pro wrestling- with all of pro wrestling's own established conventions- as if it were a sport: With the results of the matches mattering and the promotion do it's best to ensure fair play (including taking steps to rectify unfair play, like booking rematches with stipulations designed to prevent the unfair tactic that marred the first match, because the goal is to find out who is the best).
AEW works with a big ppv every 3 months or so and a big-ish show in betwen, it's not like title shots should happen weekly.

it doesn't mean borrowing, but it being wrestling doesn't mean that it needs to me mutually exclusive. It doesn't hurt to try and grab things from here and there and make them work
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Re: BRM Reviews the 2/10/2021 Dynamite (best in a very long time)

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 17th, '21, 11:34

cero2k wrote: Feb 17th, '21, 09:50
Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 16th, '21, 23:28

But that only makes sense in MMA because the fighters don't fight as often as wrestlers wrestle. In a sport where you'd expected to wrestle most weeks, there is no reason to go out and give the #1 team a title shot when there are three teams higher than them, plus another team who just earned a title shot.

And a "sports presentation" doesn't mean borrowing things from other sports. It means treating pro wrestling- with all of pro wrestling's own established conventions- as if it were a sport: With the results of the matches mattering and the promotion do it's best to ensure fair play (including taking steps to rectify unfair play, like booking rematches with stipulations designed to prevent the unfair tactic that marred the first match, because the goal is to find out who is the best).
AEW works with a big ppv every 3 months or so and a big-ish show in betwen, it's not like title shots should happen weekly.
I'm not saying there should be title shots weekly. What I'm saying is that the expectation that wrestlers wrestle almost every week means that the reason that an MMA promotion will give the #4-ranked contender a title shot before the #1-ranked contender doesn't apply.
cero2k wrote: Feb 17th, '21, 09:50 it doesn't mean borrowing, but it being wrestling doesn't mean that it needs to me mutually exclusive. It doesn't hurt to try and grab things from here and there and make them work
If you can make it work then sure, but my whole point is that this doesn't work. And the way we know it doesn't work is that people have to come up with their own secret, unstated rules in order to make it make sense.
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