BRM Reviews the 7/13/2022 Dynamite (WATCH THIS MAIN EVENT!)

[Big Red Machine]

BEST FRIENDS PROMO- terrible
They announce their intention to cheat to help Orange Cassidy steal the TNT Title from Wardlow. I would hope that the referee would just eject them from ringside before the match (no, then having “managers’ licenses wouldn’t prevent that, as it happens all the time). Orange Cassidy said “I don’t care.” I don’t know if that applies to his friends’ cheating, or to the whole idea of winning the title, but either way it’s bad.

AEW TNT TITLE MATCH: Wardlow(c) vs. Orange Cassidy (w/Best Friends)- 6/10
Orange Cassidy is getting a title shot because… open challenge. Again, why even have rankings, then?
We started out with OC shenanigans. Wardlow responded to this by ripping the pockets out of OC’s pants. Okay… but the holes for them are still there, so he’ll just stick his hands in those.
And here are Best Friends starting to cheat. At least Bryce Remsburg actually did eject them from ringside. I was certain that he wouldn’t. Danhausen was under the ring, and he tried to help OC, too, by distracting Wardlow.
These guys actually told a great story of OC using his speed and agility to counter Wardlow’s big power moves util he finally got caught in the end, but instead of letting these two just go out there and tell their story, AEW had to poison it with their stupid crap, making both guys unlikable (OC for his friends’ cheating, and Wardlow for going for a pin with his foot on OC’s chest like a douche).

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- bad
Best Friends come out back. Wardlow picks OC up like he might attack him, but then offers him a handshake. OC accepts the handshake, even though Wardlow completely disrespected him during the match. To quote CM Punk (complaining about the lack of understanding of psychology in CZW when they brought him in for a shot) “if you kick me in the balls, I’m not going to shake your hand afterwards. This is essentially the same thing: a mid-match sign of disrespect (remember that CZW was a no-DQs environment back then).

CLIPS OF PAC’S FIRST DEFENSE OF THE ALL-ATLANTIC TITLE- This happened on Dark. Really. The reason it happened on Dark was because it actually happened at a RevPro show on Sunday. AEW’s graphic said “last Sunday” which would be wrong, because the show happened on the 10th, and you don’t say “last” when you’re referring to a past day in the current week. I know you’re probably thinking that that’s a nit-pick, but the only reason I know the date of the show is that I looked it up because I wanted to be absolutely sure I was right before I ranted about how stupid it was that they had this title defended for the first time “last Sunday” and didn’t mention it at any point on last week’s shows.

CHRIS JERICHO PROMO- meh
The entire gimmick of Jericho and his group is that they are stand-ins for a style of presentation that AEW fans hate. The fact that there are fans who bringing pro-JAS signs isn’t ideal, but unfortunately, with today’s fans, it’s unavoidable. But just because the fans bringing the signs is unavoidable doesn’t mean that you have to seek them out with your cameras and zoom in on them during the show, you f*cking morons!
Wait… are Eddie Kingston and Ruby Soho married or something? Because they’re making it sound like they’re a couple, and Kingston talked about having a wife earlier in this feud, in which case either Kingston is cheating on his wife (which is a heel move), or that two of the wrestlers on this show are married and it somehow has not been mentioned on the air.
Jericho had some good lines in here, but there are two major issues that keep me from caring about this feud. The first- as I’ve noted before- is that this feud already hit its natural end point and I saw Kingston get revenge on Jericho for burning his face with a fireball. It has already had one match that should have been the blow-off, and two MAJOR gimmick matches. Sure, Jericho can claim that this will be the last match, but given the personalities involved, why should I trust that? Why should I believe that if Jericho wins, Kingston won’t just keep coming after him to get this revenge he seeks? Why should I believe that if Kingston wins, Jericho won’t just do what he did after Blood & Guts and attack Kingston’s uncle or kidnap his cat or something? That, plus the fact that I already got to see Kingston get ample revenge (for anyone other than an obsessed crazy man), anyway, makes it really hard for me to care about the outcome.
The second issue is this whole “Painmaker” thing. If they were just using it as a nickname and Jerico said “you forget who you’re dealing with, Kingston. I’m the Painmaker!” that would be fine, but by pushing the idea that “the Painmaker is undefeated, they’re treating it as something different, and it makes no sense. It’s an “aspect of his personality.” What the f*ck does that mean? He doesn’t even act that differently. It’s heel AEW Jericho in a brawl… but with facepaint on. And if it’s so powerful and he can just turn it on at will, why isn’t he the Painmaker all the time? Or at least for his no DQs matches (like, say, the f*cking Blood & Guts matches he’s been in)?
The Painmaker, as presented in AEW, makes no sense in any context other than being viewed as a pro wrestling booking tool. It is a different gimmick they can have Jericho use at selected intervals to make sure that he always wins when using it, with the intend of building it up until he finally loses to someone as the Painmaker, making the win feel bigger. It’s no different than how you would build up a gimmick match as someone’s specialty match, or how you would build up a finisher over time until you’re ready for someone to kick out of it. But in those two cases, you have an answer to the question of “why doesn’t it always happen.” A specific gimmick match only happens when management books it (whether or their own initiative or at the urging of the participants). With a finisher, the wrestler can just not have the chance to go for it during a match, or perhaps the opponent manages to escape it.
But what, in kayfabe, is stopping Jericho from being the Painmaker in every no DQ match he’s in? Nothing. The only reason he isn’t the Painmaker is because the booker only wants to use the gimmick in certain spots, and that’s not acceptable in-universe answer! A booking tool is the equivalent of a special effect in a movie. You’re supposed to see the effect, but you’re not supposed to see “how” it is being done. This “Painmaker” is the equivalent of going to the latest superhero movie and having the wires that enable the flying effects be plainly visible. It’s immersion-breaking.

EDDIE KINGSTON PROMO- meh
It’s hard for me to get that upset about Ruby Soho’s hand being broken in a feud where Jericho burned Kinston’s face with a fireball, and it’s even harder than that for me to get upset about Ortiz losing his hair (especially when they did nothing to build up its importance beforehand and haven’t shown us any change or even disappointment in him afterwards. At least with Ruby’s hand it’s an injury that stops her from wrestling, and it was obviously physically painful).

AEW INTERIM WORLD TITLE ELIMINATOR MATCH: AEW Interim World Champion Jon Moxley vs. Konnosuke Takeshita- 7.75/10
So Takeshita loses cleanly to Kingston on Rampage, and yet Kingston isn’t booked while Takeshita gets the chance to earn a world title shot?
They dropped each other on their heads a lot, particularly with German suplex. Excalibur noted that this was to be expected because Takeshita “wrote his graduate thesis on the German suplex.” That might sounds crazy, but it’s actually true. And it wasn’t easy, either. He had to defend his thesis against a panel of extremely well-regarded doctors. Major names in the field, such as Schultz, Richards, Baker, Wagner, Schiller, Williams, Wippleman, and Cena.

HOUSE OF BLACK PROMO/VIDEO PACKAGE- okay
Someone finally remembered that Julia Hart is with them. Buddy Matthews seems to have disappeared, though. Apparently Brody King is upset that Darby Allin offered him a handshake after he lost to Moxley. That’s such a ridiculous thing to be upset about. It’s the sort of thing that someone like Jericho would use as an excuse for attacking someone they wanted to attack, so they could pretend to be aggrieved party. Brody had his pals seem to be genuinely upset about it.
It was nice that they showed us Brody attacking Darby at a promotional event over the weekend, but it would have worked a lot better if Excalibur had told us about that before we saw images of it while the House of Black was talking about other stuff.

CHRISTIAN CAGE PROMO- bad
He told the Varsity Blonds “I don’t know either of you from Adam.” I could see how Christian would get confused, seeing as all three have long blond hair.
Speaking of the Varsity Blonds (and Julia Hart, who I was speaking of before)… how the heel does she turn on them, and there is no feud?
And hey, we’re going back to the “Pillman’s dead dad” well yet again. Tony Khan needs to hang a sign in his office saying “X days last mention of a dead parent.”

GRIFF GARRISON (w/Brian Pillman Jr.) vs. LUCHASAURUS (w/Christian Cage)- squash
Christian orders Luchasarus to destroy Griff because Griff looks like Jungle Boy. Taz told us that Christian had Luchasaurus motivated to the point where his confidence was both “lethal and deadly.” Well… it’s Taz.
Luchasaurus won a squash with the “Tar Pit” (his Snare Trap). We got a post-match attack just because. Pillman tried to help his partner, but he got beaten up, too.

TONY SCHIAVONE INTERVIEWS DAINEL GARCIA & 2.0- bad
2.0 were clowns, but they did make a good point that it’s not fair that their team has to be in a shark cage but Kingston’s friends don’t. Oh, yeah. The shark cage. Neither Jericho nor Kingston mentioned it in their big go-home promos. Oops.
The clowns left, at which point Daniel Garcia cut a promo challenging Wheeler YUTA to defend the ROH Pure Title against him at Death Before Dishonor. Not only did he already make this challenge last week, but I’m pretty sure they had already announced the match before that.

ALL OUT WILL BE A “WEEK-LONG EVENT”- And you thought Double or Nothing was long…

TONY SCHIAVONE’S INTERVIEW WITH ADAM PAGE IS INTERRUPTED BY THE BEAVER BOYS- bad
They were annoying. They challenged the House of Black to a six-man tag on Rampage, and Adam Page agreed. Tony Schiavone took this to mean that he match was officially booked, even though management hadn’t signed off and the people who were challenged hadn’t accepted.

JAKE HAGER vs. CLAUDIO CASTAGNOLI- 8/10
Excalibur referred to Hager and Claudio’s time as a head as “highly successful.” Fun fact: The team of Jake Hager and Claudio Castagnoli has won the same number of tag team championships as the team of Mariko Yoshida and me.
Soooo much fun, and a good story about two guys who knew each other very well, too.

HOOK IGNORES ANOTHER INTERVIEW- Lexi asked him if being undefeated meant that there was a title shot in his future.

TONY SCHIAVONE’S INTERVIEW WITH TONI STORM & THUNDER ROSA IS INTERRUPTED BY JAMIE HAYTER & BRITT BAKER- bad
Dr. Baker showed up, interrupted the babyfaces, and made them look like geeks, and they just stood there and took it.

SERENA DEEB vs. ANNA JAY- 5.75/10
This was decent. Deeb won cleanly. Why doesn’t anyone complain about AEW having babyfaces (and heels) lose in their home towns?

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- snore
Deeb kept the hold locked in after the match for no reason. Fortunately for AEW, the person she is challenging for a title in a week and a half came out to break it up so that something could happen on this show to build up that match. How about instead of this crap, you let the wrestlers cut promos and tell us why the match is important to them?

TONY SCHIVAONE INTERVIEWS JADE CARGILL, STOKELY HATHAWAY, & THE BADDIES- bad
They are building up dissension between Jade and Kiera on one side and Stokely and Leyla Grey on the other. We’re supposed to feel bad for Leyla because Jade and Kiera are mistreating her, but it’s hard for me to do that when the only reason she’s with them is because she committed a dastardly act against someone who had done nothing to her in order to gain their trust. She knows that they’re jerks and bad people… and she wants to be a part of their group. She is NOT sympathetic.

For Rampage, they are advertising that Gunn Club will “explain” why they “betrayed” the Acclaimed. Does it really need that much of an explanation? The Acclaimed kept insulting them!

JAY LETHAL SHOWS UP AT THE DESK TO CUT A PROMO- very good

TAY CONTI BOTHERS ANNA JAY IN THE TRAINER’S ROOM- fine
Tony Khan must have read my review from last week and put these two in a segment together so it doesn’t feel like Anna is totally ignoring her best friend’s total change of character. Tay suggests that Anna join the JAS so that she can get booked on TV more often.

AEW WORLD TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: Young Bucks(c) (w/Brandon Cutler) vs. Team Taz (Will Hobbs & Ricky Starks) vs. Keith Lee & Shane Strickland- 9/10
Lots of cool moves and great nearfalls happened. They must have overrun by a bit, as my DVR cut out right after the pinfall. There was an off spot with Strickland where it looked like he was considering attacking Lee with one of the tag belts in the middle of this match…but attacking his partner in the middle of a match wouldn’t make any sense, so maybe he was contemplating using the belt but knew that Lee would want him to wrestle honorably and thus throw the belt away? I don’t know.

OOPS! I totally forgot to mention that the titles changed hands, with Lee & Strickland winning them. I don't really understand the point of this, considering that they seemed to have been building to Bucks vs. FTR with lots of titles on the line.


This was an outstanding episode of Dynamite in the ring, but the typically frustrating one outside of it.

[XIV]

So, quick disclaimer. I only got to watch Dynamite last night, work had gotten in the way, but I had seen the line in the title which proclaimed “watch this main event” so I was expecting big things, I took notes…

The match started slow, when Swerve and Nick Jackson get tagged in a dance routine broke out with obviously choreographed moves and I immediately rolled my eyes. This is already the fakest bullshit I have ever seen in my life.

Minutes later there’s a stupid spot where Starks and Jackson had an argument on the top rope adding the immediate phoniness of the match because both guys are obviously being held there willingly by their opponents!

Comedy spot with Matt Jackson and the northern lights suplex on Lee & Hobbs. I’m waiting for somebody to do something that actually makes sense and is tag team related.

When is this match going to get good?

We finally got a glimmer of hope for some actual tag team wrestling with Hobbs & Starks doing some classic tag team combos, followed not long after by more gymnastics from Swerve and the Bucks.

Then we got a few minutes of hoss fighting between Lee & Hobbs whilst everyone went AWOL waiting for their cue.

Hobbs & Starks got back on top, with more classic Tag Team wrestling. The only good thing about this match so far has been this team!

Then we got a super kick party. Which nobody wanted to be invited to or see.

Bucks grabs some belts look set to cheat and then… guess what? We got more super kicks and then a Swerve turn tease, followed by some cheating by the Bucks which led nowhere.

Then we got a good 20 seconds of Swerve in our Glory combos, followed by Hobbs killing everyone. Will this match ever get to the point?

Keith Lee then took the Bucks out with a shoe while the ref was distracted, but it led nowhere, so why do that?

There were some dives followed by Swerve solo winning the belts.

This match has 2 or 3 good moments but was mostly a car crash of nothingness and choreographed bullshit. Nobody got over, it didn’t feel like some big moment and I’m still sat with the question of, why aren’t FTR challenging for these belts instead of all these teams?

[XIV]

Now I’ll come to the rest of the show.

Wardlow vs Orange Cassidy didn’t help anyone, it served to make Wardlow look like an idiot for some of the early exchanges, which you don’t want to do with this guy right now, keep him serious and keep him winning.

I thought Jericho’s promo was alright, it’s the most serious presentation we’ve had of him in a while, and served to build to a silly match, but a match nonetheless. Jericho looked good here. Kingston’s promo afterwards didn’t do much, but he comes across as so real, Kingston is one of the best in the business for that right now. You believe what he says.

Why is Jon Moxley in an AEW title eliminator match? What even is that? Match was okay.

The Christian and Varsity Blond stuff was okay, just an excuse to rip on someone else’s dead Dad and get some cheap heat. Luchasaurus still looks stupid.

Hager and Claudio was alright, couple of blown spots, but it was match between two people who knew each other well and had the counters to prove it.

Deeb and Anna Jay was okay. Nothing to write home about. Particularly enjoyed the slightly blown dragon screw from Deeb onto Jay followed by JR saying “that looked ugly”.

At this point does anyone still care about Cargill? She’s beaten largely nobodies and rarely defends what is essentially a TV title, on TV.

Then the main event happened, which I’ve already covered.

[Big Red Machine]

Being choreographed doesn't bother me, so long as it:
1. Doesn't feel too much like people are trying to find their mark to be in position (like people getting by a dive all congregating and obviously moving towards the person who is about to dive on them)

2. It feels like a cool thing that happened during a match, rather than feeling like a spot someone came up with so that they could do a cool thing during their wrestling match and get snowflakes for it (which for me is usually mirror-image stuff or overly-done fighting spirit spots, or simultaneous stuff or anything where it's clear people are purposely getting in position or the referee is purposely letting things go or not doing a good job of distracting him/herself.

I don't disagree that this was spotty and was a car-crash, but when you haven't had anything else on the show that has fit that bill, and you have some drama on the nearfalls, and it doesn't violate anything else, I'll usually enjoy it.

[Big Red Machine]

Why is Jon Moxley in an AEW title eliminator match? What even is that?

It's "if the challenger wins, he/she/they get a title shot." It's a really dumb name because it doesn't make any sense, and it's made worse by the fact that beating the champ should always result in getting a title shot, so it's not just a stupid name, but a pointless, stupid name.

At this point does anyone still care about Cargill? She’s beaten largely nobodies and rarely defends what is essentially a TV title, on TV.

I kind of do. The booking of her challengers has been bad, but that has been unfortunately common in AEW. Whenever she loses, I still feel like it will be a huge deal and a real boost to the person who beats her.

[XIV]

Why is Jon Moxley in an AEW title eliminator match? What even is that?

It's "if the challenger wins, he/she/they get a title shot." It's a really dumb name because it doesn't make any sense, and it's made worse by the fact that beating the champ should always result in getting a title shot, so it's not just a stupid name, but a pointless, stupid name.

At this point does anyone still care about Cargill? She’s beaten largely nobodies and rarely defends what is essentially a TV title, on TV.

I kind of do. The booking of her challengers has been bad, but that has been unfortunately common in AEW. Whenever she loses, I still feel like it will be a huge deal and a real boost to the person who beats her.

1. Hard agree on the silly name for something that has been a wrestling rule since the dawn of time. Pin or submit the champion, should end in a title shot.

2. I will agree that her losing to whoever will be a big deal. But that’s all that’s left here.

[XIV]

Being choreographed doesn't bother me, so long as it:
1. Doesn't feel too much like people are trying to find their mark to be in position (like people getting by a dive all congregating and obviously moving towards the person who is about to dive on them)

2. It feels like a cool thing that happened during a match, rather than feeling like a spot someone came up with so that they could do a cool thing during their wrestling match and get snowflakes for it (which for me is usually mirror-image stuff or overly-done fighting spirit spots, or simultaneous stuff or anything where it's clear people are purposely getting in position or the referee is purposely letting things go or not doing a good job of distracting him/herself.

I don't disagree that this was spotty and was a car-crash, but when you haven't had anything else on the show that has fit that bill, and you have some drama on the nearfalls, and it doesn't violate anything else, I'll usually enjoy it.

1. Being obviously choreographed does bother me, wrestling is supposed to feel like a fight and if two guys are dancing around for an extended period of time, it crosses the line of “oh that’s cool” into “oh that’s fake as shit”. Swerve and the Bucks found too much of that in this match.

2. But that opening exchanged with Swerve and whichever Buck is was now, did come across as overly rehearsed from the beginning right through the routine to the point where they did matching Kip ups on the floor.

I’m not a complete wrestling dinosaur, a cool spot is a cool spot, but where it goes just a little too long, it loses its effect and crosses that border for me.

[Big Red Machine]

2. I will agree that her losing to whoever will be a big deal. But that’s all that’s left here.

I can see her feeling like a big deal again if they announce she is going after the other title. She has been back-burnered, in a way, but I don't think she is cold/hard to care about in the way that, say, Adam Page has become.

[Big Red Machine]

Being choreographed doesn't bother me, so long as it:
1. Doesn't feel too much like people are trying to find their mark to be in position (like people getting by a dive all congregating and obviously moving towards the person who is about to dive on them)

2. It feels like a cool thing that happened during a match, rather than feeling like a spot someone came up with so that they could do a cool thing during their wrestling match and get snowflakes for it (which for me is usually mirror-image stuff or overly-done fighting spirit spots, or simultaneous stuff or anything where it's clear people are purposely getting in position or the referee is purposely letting things go or not doing a good job of distracting him/herself.

I don't disagree that this was spotty and was a car-crash, but when you haven't had anything else on the show that has fit that bill, and you have some drama on the nearfalls, and it doesn't violate anything else, I'll usually enjoy it.

1. Being obviously choreographed does bother me, wrestling is supposed to feel like a fight and if two guys are dancing around for an extended period of time, it crosses the line of “oh that’s cool” into “oh that’s fake as shit”. Swerve and the Bucks found too much of that in this match.

2. But that opening exchanged with Swerve and whichever Buck is was now, did come across as overly rehearsed from the beginning right through the routine to the point where they did matching Kip ups on the floor.

I’m not a complete wrestling dinosaur, a cool spot is a cool spot, but where it goes just a little too long, it loses its effect and crosses that border for me.

1. Do yourself a favor and boot up your WWE Network and watch the main event of EVOLVE 5: Danielson vs. Sawa.

How do you feel about the Matrix Minute?

[XIV]

2. I will agree that her losing to whoever will be a big deal. But that’s all that’s left here.

I can see her feeling like a big deal again if they announce she is going after the other title. She has been back-burnered, in a way, but I don't think she is cold/hard to care about in the way that, say, Adam Page has become.

If they’re going to Goldberg her, they need to fully do it, like he did with the US and then the World title.

She needs to barrel through 10 solid names, get people caring about her and making her feel undefeatable and get the World Title shot in.

Then you can build or bring in whoever you want to dethrone her down the line and it will feel massive.

Hope isn’t entirely lost, but the shine is going.

[XIV]

Being choreographed doesn't bother me, so long as it:
1. Doesn't feel too much like people are trying to find their mark to be in position (like people getting by a dive all congregating and obviously moving towards the person who is about to dive on them)

2. It feels like a cool thing that happened during a match, rather than feeling like a spot someone came up with so that they could do a cool thing during their wrestling match and get snowflakes for it (which for me is usually mirror-image stuff or overly-done fighting spirit spots, or simultaneous stuff or anything where it's clear people are purposely getting in position or the referee is purposely letting things go or not doing a good job of distracting him/herself.

I don't disagree that this was spotty and was a car-crash, but when you haven't had anything else on the show that has fit that bill, and you have some drama on the nearfalls, and it doesn't violate anything else, I'll usually enjoy it.

1. Being obviously choreographed does bother me, wrestling is supposed to feel like a fight and if two guys are dancing around for an extended period of time, it crosses the line of “oh that’s cool” into “oh that’s fake as shit”. Swerve and the Bucks found too much of that in this match.

2. But that opening exchanged with Swerve and whichever Buck is was now, did come across as overly rehearsed from the beginning right through the routine to the point where they did matching Kip ups on the floor.

I’m not a complete wrestling dinosaur, a cool spot is a cool spot, but where it goes just a little too long, it loses its effect and crosses that border for me.

1. Do yourself a favor and boot up your WWE Network and watch the main event of EVOLVE 5: Danielson vs. Sawa.

How do you feel about the Matrix Minute?

I have seen said Matrix minute. It’s legendary. I’m okay with it and it took a lot of talent to pull that off.
The reason that works is because it looks like someone trying to avoid strikes and the other guy trying to hit him, sure, I it’s heavily choreographed, but in that instance, it absolutely worked.

What doesn’t work is obvious co-operation, where it stops feeling like a fight and more like a dance or a routine.

[Big Red Machine]

1. Being obviously choreographed does bother me, wrestling is supposed to feel like a fight and if two guys are dancing around for an extended period of time, it crosses the line of “oh that’s cool” into “oh that’s fake as shit”. Swerve and the Bucks found too much of that in this match.

2. But that opening exchanged with Swerve and whichever Buck is was now, did come across as overly rehearsed from the beginning right through the routine to the point where they did matching Kip ups on the floor.

I’m not a complete wrestling dinosaur, a cool spot is a cool spot, but where it goes just a little too long, it loses its effect and crosses that border for me.

1. Do yourself a favor and boot up your WWE Network and watch the main event of EVOLVE 5: Danielson vs. Sawa.

How do you feel about the Matrix Minute?

I have seen said Matrix minute. It’s legendary. I’m okay with it and it took a lot of talent to pull that off.
The reason that works is because it looks like someone trying to avoid strikes and the other guy trying to hit him, sure, I it’s heavily choreographed, but in that instance, it absolutely worked.

What doesn’t work is obvious co-operation, where it stops feeling like a fight and more like a dance or a routine.

That's my feeling, too.

How did you feel about the five-way title match NXT did last year?

[XIV]

1. Do yourself a favor and boot up your WWE Network and watch the main event of EVOLVE 5: Danielson vs. Sawa.

How do you feel about the Matrix Minute?

I have seen said Matrix minute. It’s legendary. I’m okay with it and it took a lot of talent to pull that off.
The reason that works is because it looks like someone trying to avoid strikes and the other guy trying to hit him, sure, I it’s heavily choreographed, but in that instance, it absolutely worked.

What doesn’t work is obvious co-operation, where it stops feeling like a fight and more like a dance or a routine.

That's my feeling, too.

How did you feel about the five-way title match NXT did last year?

Can’t say I’ve seen it, so can’t comment.

Which five way and I’ll give it a watch!

[Big Red Machine]

I have seen said Matrix minute. It’s legendary. I’m okay with it and it took a lot of talent to pull that off.
The reason that works is because it looks like someone trying to avoid strikes and the other guy trying to hit him, sure, I it’s heavily choreographed, but in that instance, it absolutely worked.

What doesn’t work is obvious co-operation, where it stops feeling like a fight and more like a dance or a routine.

That's my feeling, too.

How did you feel about the five-way title match NXT did last year?

Can’t say I’ve seen it, so can’t comment.

Which five way and I’ll give it a watch!

In Your House 2021

Cole vs. Kross vs. O'Reilly vs. Dunne vs Gargano.

[XIV]

That's my feeling, too.

How did you feel about the five-way title match NXT did last year?

Can’t say I’ve seen it, so can’t comment.

Which five way and I’ll give it a watch!

In Your House 2021

Cole vs. Kross vs. O'Reilly vs. Dunne vs Gargano.

I have not seen that, I will have a look at that.
I’m dubious, nobody gets over in a four way, and five way surely cannot be better. My issue is when people go missing for 3-4 minutes at a time selling things like DDTs.

But I’ll feed back.

[XIV]

That's my feeling, too.

How did you feel about the five-way title match NXT did last year?

Can’t say I’ve seen it, so can’t comment.

Which five way and I’ll give it a watch!

In Your House 2021

Cole vs. Kross vs. O'Reilly vs. Dunne vs Gargano.

So, it was much as expected, a lot of people missing for minutes at a time, which is a bug bear of mine in multiple man matches, however, they did a a very good job of also including everybody at points, like when Gargano goes on a mad one, or Kross sets everyone in corners, so they got that right.

They did the best they could with a 5 way and taking all into account, it was a good watch and told several individual stories really well. They made a 5-man match make sense story wise, which also is not easy.

My issue with multiple man matches is people doing nothing. Odd numbers can work fine, but be mindful of leaving one person out while everyone pairs off, but timing is everything. I understand that you want small focuses in the ring, but you want everyone to pair off so that nobody is doing nothing for minutes at a time waiting for cues.

Always remember that it’s precisely because of my points that it’s rare anyone gets over in a 3 or 4 way.

[Big Red Machine]

Can’t say I’ve seen it, so can’t comment.

Which five way and I’ll give it a watch!

In Your House 2021

Cole vs. Kross vs. O'Reilly vs. Dunne vs Gargano.

I have not seen that, I will have a look at that.
I’m dubious, nobody gets over in a four way, and five way surely cannot be better. My issue is when people go missing for 3-4 minutes at a time selling things like DDTs.

But I’ll feed back.

Ah. I'm certain this had people recovering for minutes at a time. This never bothered me because I just saw it as taking time to recover and rest rather than being put down.

I'll disagree that no one gets over in multi-man matches. People don't get any more over in these "everyone is equal and we're just doing spots" mutli-man matches, but in if you have a specific person or idea who you want to get over and structure the match to do that, it's very doable

[XIV]

In Your House 2021

Cole vs. Kross vs. O'Reilly vs. Dunne vs Gargano.

I have not seen that, I will have a look at that.
I’m dubious, nobody gets over in a four way, and five way surely cannot be better. My issue is when people go missing for 3-4 minutes at a time selling things like DDTs.

But I’ll feed back.

Ah. I'm certain this had people recovering for minutes at a time. This never bothered me because I just saw it as taking time to recover and rest rather than being put down.

I'll disagree that no one gets over in multi-man matches. People don't get any more over in these "everyone is equal and we're just doing spots" mutli-man matches, but in if you have a specific person or idea who you want to get over and structure the match to do that, it's very doable

I refer you to my previous comment on this match. But, there were still times where people went missing, but they brought everyuone back together well enough. That's me looking in the confines of the match, this is why unless you've got clear plans to put someone over, Don't do multiple man matches.

[Big Red Machine]

I refer you to my previous comment on this match. But, there were still times where people went missing, but they brought everyuone back together well enough. That's me looking in the confines of the match, this is why unless you've got clear plans to put someone over, Don't do multiple man matches.

I think multi-man matches can be fine storytelling tools without specifically focusing on getting one person over in any way more than being the person who wins the match. They're a useful tool in telling longer-term, big picture stories. For example, as a step (or multiple steps) in telling a story about a champion winnowing down a specific batch of challengers, or of someone who we're sure can win if he gets the champ one-on-one, but others keep getting in the way, where it's a way to reinforce/extend that story without relying on interference.

You can even use them as a tool in an of themselves to create a situation that enables a situation that you need as a catalyst for a direction.
(For example- not to toot my own horn, but because it's an example I'm intimately familiar with, the way I used a multi-woman match in my BRM Books Raw 1,000 and Beyond fantasy booking thread as a way to create situation where there was enough chaos so that there could believably be a bunch of visual pinfalls and interferences and so forth that the Divas Title would be help up afterwards, which would then serve as a kayfabe excuse to replace it with a reinstated Women's Title, and to set-up a six-way between worthy contenders to crown the first champion... though I never got up to that last part. Doing that wouldn't have worked nearly as well with just a singles match or even a three-way, because chaos like that happens all the time in those matches, so it wouldn't feel "above and beyond" enough to justify vacating the title in this situation, when it doesn't happen in other singles matches or even three-ways with such messiness. It needed an overwhelming number of title claimants, and only a big multi-woman match could properly set that up).

I'm not even opposed to booking them just to put a good action-match on the card and get someone a win (though, if I'm reading you right, you aren't, either, provided that enough focus is put on the victor).

[XIV]

I refer you to my previous comment on this match. But, there were still times where people went missing, but they brought everyuone back together well enough. That's me looking in the confines of the match, this is why unless you've got clear plans to put someone over, Don't do multiple man matches.

I think multi-man matches can be fine storytelling tools without specifically focusing on getting one person over in any way more than being the person who wins the match. They're a useful tool in telling longer-term, big picture stories. For example, as a step (or multiple steps) in telling a story about a champion winnowing down a specific batch of challengers, or of someone who we're sure can win if he gets the champ one-on-one, but others keep getting in the way, where it's a way to reinforce/extend that story without relying on interference.

You can even use them as a tool in an of themselves to create a situation that enables a situation that you need as a catalyst for a direction.
(For example- not to toot my own horn, but because it's an example I'm intimately familiar with, the way I used a multi-woman match in my BRM Books Raw 1,000 and Beyond fantasy booking thread as a way to create situation where there was enough chaos so that there could believably be a bunch of visual pinfalls and interferences and so forth that the Divas Title would be help up afterwards, which would then serve as a kayfabe excuse to replace it with a reinstated Women's Title, and to set-up a six-way between worthy contenders to crown the first champion... though I never got up to that last part. Doing that wouldn't have worked nearly as well with just a singles match or even a three-way, because chaos like that happens all the time in those matches, so it wouldn't feel "above and beyond" enough to justify vacating the title in this situation, when it doesn't happen in other singles matches or even three-ways with such messiness. It needed an overwhelming number of title claimants, and only a big multi-woman match could properly set that up).

I'm not even opposed to booking them just to put a good action-match on the card and get someone a win (though, if I'm reading you right, you aren't, either, provided that enough focus is put on the victor).

I think multi-person has to have a purpose. Like, if you’ve got a talent you want to go over, what better than having them beat 3 other big names. But you’d plan for that in how the others feed them and make them look good.

I also accept multi-person title contender matches, because that’s a purpose, and you can write a journey within that match for the contender, but you need announcers to be putting each person’s journey to that point over hard and build to the winner.

Just putting a four way on the card because you want to feature 4 guys isn’t usually for me, because it may not have a point.

Let’s look at the “Armageddon hell in a cell” match from 2000. That came together somewhat organically and had a story behind it. The Rock was feuding with Rikishi, but had recently screwed Undertaker out of the title at Survivor Series so Undertaker. Steve Austin gets added in because of the Rikishi factor which then sees Triple H added as the mastermind and all get to challenge for Angle’s title.

Now it wasn’t perfect story-knitting, but it got us there.

Then the match itself was not an amazing spectacle by any means, but because of the even numbers, wrestlers generally paired off to do things. There were plenty of rest spots, but for chunks of it, there’s action happening in multiple places, if you’re gonna have 6 people in a match, that’s a realistic prospect, and therefore made the match make sense both on the lead into and within the match itself, with Angle fully establishing himself as Champion that night by beating the 5 biggest contenders in the company, I think 1 month removed from his rookie year.

It had a point and purpose. A lot of multi-person matches lack that. And that’s where it falls apart. A multi-person spot fest for the sake of it, does nothing to enhance a talent or put on a match people will remember for years to come.