Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

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ECWFlairfan
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Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by ECWFlairfan » Jan 24th, '11, 18:54

It was mentioned in another blog that MITB SHOULD be for those who need an "extra push" to reach the main event level: Here's the list of those who have participated in MITB matches... Who among these actually need/needed an extra push to reach the top levels in the company & who among the winners (marked with *) actually was able to achieve it via MITB: Big Show, Carlito, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Christian, CM Punk*, Cody Rhodes, Dolph Ziggler, Drew McIntyre, Edge*, Evan Bourne, Finlay, Jack Swagger*, Jeff Hardy, John Morrison, Kane*, Kennedy*, King Booker, Kofi Kingston, Lashley, Mark Henry, Matt Hardy, Miz*, MVP, Randy Orton, Ric Flair, Rob Van Dam*, Shelton Benjamin, Ted DiBiase Jr

Winners: Edge, Rob Van Dam, Kennedy, CM Punk, Jack Swagger, Kane, Miz

Who actually needed the "extra push" when they won MITB? Who is still considered Main Event now having won MITB?

Lets debate!!!

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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by cero2k » Jan 24th, '11, 19:30

for what it's worth, most participants are just there for filler and spots (see kofi, shelton, carlito, morrison, etc)

now, from the winners.

Edge - after 10 or so title reigns, you would imagine that Edge didn't need the MITB, but considering that when he won, he was still title less and up and coming worked perfectly. plus being the test run of the MITB, they needed someone to run that storyline. and as we can see, it worked for him.

RVD - It would have been almost impossible to get him into the main event scene without the MITB, especially to get a match with Cena at ONS II with so little time to build it up. As for staying in the title scene, it was his problem with the police that killed his push, but he was meant to be big in both RAW (for a while) and ECW.

Kennedy - He didn't need it, but unfortunately, he became a face and lost all his momentum, that and coming back from his 999th recovery, it was a quick way to get back into the momentum he lost. he would have definitely stayed in the main event scene (smackdown likely), but again, it was his constant injuries that killed that push.

Punk - he needed it in order to get a midcard guy to immediately get into the title scene, which i think it was a success. The second win, while not all that necessary, was the perfect excuse to start his hardy/Punk feud, probably no1 feud that year.

Miz - See Punk. but i think that Miz was meant to lose the cash in, in order to make it seem like "anything can happen" and considering that Miz is sooo over his heel heat, he's the only guy that wouldn't be hurt of loosing the briefcase. but now we know what happened, and considering how much Miz has grown over the last two years (voted most improved wrestler twice), it seems like Miz is staying there for a while.

Swagger - He needed the win of the briefcase because after getting a little into the title scene, he hadn't made an impact. However, the problem with Swagger, is that he cashed wwwaaaayyy to soon, he's the kind of guy that should have waited until the rumble or something like that. not to mention that his title was taken away from him, and thus again, killing all his push.

Kane - while not really needing the MITB to get into the title scene, it worked because it meant that he could take Mysterio's title easily, without making super rey look weak, cuz let's face it, it's kane!!! however, i personally think it was a waste to have the title involved during the kane/taker feud which was not about the title. but considering that taker lost the title challenge three times in a row against a much deserving title reign in kane makes it all worth wild.
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ECWFlairfan
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by ECWFlairfan » Jan 24th, '11, 19:45

cero2k wrote:
Edge - after 10 or so title reigns, you would imagine that Edge didn't need the MITB, but considering that when he won, he was still title less and up and coming worked perfectly. plus being the test run of the MITB, they needed someone to run that storyline. and as we can see, it worked for him.

RVD - It would have been almost impossible to get him into the main event scene without the MITB, especially to get a match with Cena at ONS II with so little time to build it up. As for staying in the title scene, it was his problem with the police that killed his push, but he was meant to be big in both RAW (for a while) and ECW.

Kennedy - He didn't need it, but unfortunately, he became a face and lost all his momentum, that and coming back from his 999th recovery, it was a quick way to get back into the momentum he lost. he would have definitely stayed in the main event scene (smackdown likely), but again, it was his constant injuries that killed that push.

Punk - he needed it in order to get a midcard guy to immediately get into the title scene, which i think it was a success. The second win, while not all that necessary, was the perfect excuse to start his hardy/Punk feud, probably no1 feud that year.

Miz - See Punk. but i think that Miz was meant to lose the cash in, in order to make it seem like "anything can happen" and considering that Miz is sooo over his heel heat, he's the only guy that wouldn't be hurt of loosing the briefcase. but now we know what happened, and considering how much Miz has grown over the last two years (voted most improved wrestler twice), it seems like Miz is staying there for a while.

Swagger - He needed the win of the briefcase because after getting a little into the title scene, he hadn't made an impact. However, the problem with Swagger, is that he cashed wwwaaaayyy to soon, he's the kind of guy that should have waited until the rumble or something like that. not to mention that his title was taken away from him, and thus again, killing all his push.

Kane - while not really needing the MITB to get into the title scene, it worked because it meant that he could take Mysterio's title easily, without making super rey look weak, cuz let's face it, it's kane!!! however, i personally think it was a waste to have the title involved during the kane/taker feud which was not about the title. but considering that taker lost the title challenge three times in a row against a much deserving title reign in kane makes it all worth wild.
Good points...here's my reply:

Edge: Jericho would have been a better choice to win because he deserved to be considered Main Event but after the way he was buried by HHH he was considered lower mid card in spite of being the first Unified World champion in over 50 years.

RVD: He should have been World champion over HHH way before MITB...

Kennedy: was wasted because of his injuries, just a way to help Edge's push as the Ultimate Opportunist.

CM Punk: I honestly don't think he would have needed it if WWE had handled him correctly in the first place... With Benoit's no show, Punk should have won the ECW World title & then sent to Smackdown to run roughshod before going to RAW & doing the same...

Jack Swagger: A complete waste since nothing has been done with Swagger since... take 2nite for example, a run in for Edge to look good against 3 people? stupid if you ask me.

Kane: worked because of the storyline, but should have won his 2nd World title WAY before now.

Miz: Another waste in my opinion... wouldn't have been seen as a legit title contender w/o MITB

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Cactus Jack Manson
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by Cactus Jack Manson » Jan 24th, '11, 20:13

Really, the MITB match doesn't need to be around. The only time someone should win a match to get a world title match is when it's a #1 Contender match, a tournament, or a concept like the Royal Rumble. Winning a ladder match is based on luck. Don't get me wrong, so is the Royal Rumble, but at least the Rumble isn't all about luck. I'm old school, and a title match should be earned the old fashion way. I think it will give the title more prestige.
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by cero2k » Jan 24th, '11, 20:33

ECWFlairfan wrote:
Miz: Another waste in my opinion... wouldn't have been seen as a legit title contender w/o MITB
which is exactly why they gave him the MIT, to make him a possible threat.
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by Cactus Jack Manson » Jan 24th, '11, 20:43

cero2k wrote:
ECWFlairfan wrote:
Miz: Another waste in my opinion... wouldn't have been seen as a legit title contender w/o MITB
which is exactly why they gave him the MIT, to make him a possible threat.
Making someone MITB doesn't make them a threat. Actually winning matches convincingly makes you a possible threat. Winning MITB now days is the WWE trying to force someone into being a contender. The Miz & Jack Swagger are proof of that.
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cero2k
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by cero2k » Jan 24th, '11, 21:10

Catus Jack Manson wrote:
cero2k wrote:
ECWFlairfan wrote:
Miz: Another waste in my opinion... wouldn't have been seen as a legit title contender w/o MITB
which is exactly why they gave him the MIT, to make him a possible threat.
Making someone MITB doesn't make them a threat. Actually winning matches convincingly makes you a possible threat. Winning MITB now days is the WWE trying to force someone into being a contender. The Miz & Jack Swagger are proof of that.
the threat is that he can cash in when you're most vulnerable
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by Cactus Jack Manson » Jan 24th, '11, 21:14

cero2k wrote: the threat is that he can cash in when you're most vulnerable
I know the threat. I think that its old and stupid. Plus, a wrestler can be injured going into a match and he is vulnerable.
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cero2k
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by cero2k » Jan 24th, '11, 21:29

Catus Jack Manson wrote:
I know the threat. I think that its old and stupid. Plus, a wrestler can be injured going into a match and he is vulnerable.
and thus it's a threat that you're going injured into your title match, it plays the odd against you, which makes the face an amazing wrestler cuz they had to "beat" the odds if they were to win, or give a heel a reason of why he would win other than cheating, which has become an MO for most heel characters, since it seems that they rarely win clean matches anymore.

in a non-kayfabe way, sure, the MITB is just made to push talent without much build up. But then again, in a non-kayfabe world, there exist no threats at all.
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by Cactus Jack Manson » Jan 24th, '11, 22:08

cero2k wrote: in a non-kayfabe way, sure, the MITB is just made to push talent without much build up. But then again, in a non-kayfabe world, there exist no threats at all.
When MITB first came out, I was for it. I was saying the same thing you are. But now, it's old in a way that doesn't make it entertaining anymore, at least for me. I sorta gotten tired of ladder matches. I'm more of "the spirit of competition" fan in a traditional way.
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by cero2k » Jan 24th, '11, 22:16

Catus Jack Manson wrote:
cero2k wrote: in a non-kayfabe way, sure, the MITB is just made to push talent without much build up. But then again, in a non-kayfabe world, there exist no threats at all.
When MITB first came out, I was for it. I was saying the same thing you are. But now, it's old in a way that doesn't make it entertaining anymore, at least for me. I sorta gotten tired of ladder matches. I'm more of "the spirit of competition" fan in a traditional way.
yeah, i agree with that, I personally lost the love for the briefcase with the MITB PPV, it used to be something special to win that briefcase, but with three MITB matches per year, it's just a bit too much for me.
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by badnewzxl » Jan 24th, '11, 23:22

cero2k wrote:
Catus Jack Manson wrote: Making someone MITB doesn't make them a threat. Actually winning matches convincingly makes you a possible threat. Winning MITB now days is the WWE trying to force someone into being a contender. The Miz & Jack Swagger are proof of that.
the threat is that he can cash in when you're most vulnerable
this is the reason I don't like MITB: the breifcase is the threat; not the wrestler. I don't even really see it as much of a push for anyone who shouldn't be in contention anyway. when RVD and Edge got it, it worked well bc both guys were OBVIOUSLY ready for the main event, and they proved that by putting on good matches for years and having the crowd behind them one way or the other. Punk's first one did nothing for him; he won the World title, preventing RAW from having no champion after the draft, but then he was made to look like a chump (He had a match with Batista that Batista dominated. It just made him look bad). And, he had to drop the title without even losing it OR being injured. He was jumped and "unable" to defend the belt. And look at Swagger; he's right back in the midcard after his run as World champ, he's no contender really. Miz is getting a decent run bc of the press WWE is recieving, but what's gonna happen when the media stops caring that Mike from the Real World 10 is WWE champ? He'll fade into obscurity bc he's not a good wrestler OR entertainer. He def isn't a credible champion; the only person he's beaten Jerry Lawler and John Morrison (Morrison once; I'm not counting Orton until he actually pins him. Not to mention the fact that Miz wasn't even who knocked Orton through the table at TLC X( )

If they're gonna keep doing MITB, they should require the person to at least schedule the match; not just show up and challenge for it at any moment (*cough* Hardcore title anyone? cough*. I know it's not the same thing, but it shouldn't be close at all. It really degrades the titles, IMO). It takes away the championship advantage. They should have to do it like RVD did or at least at the beginning of the show. It'd be just as surprising and A LOT more credible if the guy with the case wins. He could still cheat; have something already set up like get some guys to jump the champ during the show or request the match the night after a grueling ppv.

MITB is just cheap heat the way they do it now.
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by ECWFlairfan » Jan 25th, '11, 12:38

badnewzxl wrote:MITB is just cheap heat the way they do it now.
Agreed. I was hoping when RVD cashed his in the way he did (in advance of a PPV) that it would set the way the briefcase was cashed in, though I admit I thoroughly enjoyed the way Punk cashed his in on Edge... the irony of it that is...

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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by cero2k » Jan 25th, '11, 23:23

ECWFlairfan wrote:
badnewzxl wrote:MITB is just cheap heat the way they do it now.
Agreed. I was hoping when RVD cashed his in the way he did (in advance of a PPV) that it would set the way the briefcase was cashed in, though I admit I thoroughly enjoyed the way Punk cashed his in on Edge... the irony of it that is...
Kennedy actually said he was waiting for WM to cash it in, but then Taker got injured and he was gonna have to use it, but then He got injured and lost it to edge...
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by badnewzxl » Jan 26th, '11, 00:27

cero2k wrote:
ECWFlairfan wrote:
badnewzxl wrote:MITB is just cheap heat the way they do it now.
Agreed. I was hoping when RVD cashed his in the way he did (in advance of a PPV) that it would set the way the briefcase was cashed in, though I admit I thoroughly enjoyed the way Punk cashed his in on Edge... the irony of it that is...
Kennedy actually said he was waiting for WM to cash it in, but then Taker got injured and he was gonna have to use it, but then He got injured and lost it to edge...
how would he have HAD to use bc Taker got injured? He still could have waited til WM. Plus, Edge is the one who beat Taker for it. I just don't follow. despite his injury, Kennedy could have still held the briefcase til WM; he was good enough on the mic to still be featured on the show without being in the ring (hell, they let Miz get away with barely performing for the last quarter of last year (an performing poorly in the ring ALL year). It just doesn't makes sense to me....
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 26th, '11, 00:56

MITB works well as a limited concept, but I think it has almost run its course. There are only so many angles you can work from it:

1. Heel wins by cashing in on an injured/tired babyface (Edge)
1b. Heel injures the babyface himself, then cashes in.

2. Heel does the same as #1, but loses, leading to the heel either
a) snapping, and just going nuts
or b) realizing that cheating doesn't work, and thus vowing to do better and becoming a babyface

3. Arrogant/Ego-maniacal Heel wants to be the center of attention, so he wants until Mania to cash in (Mr. Kennedy)

4. Babyface announces his title shot in advance, like a babyface should (RVD)

5. Babyface cashes in on a disadvantaged face, thus turning heel because the title is what is important (Punk)

6. MITB winner has his shot ruined via DQ, thus setting up for a real match.


WWE has done most of these already, and many of them (especially #1) get old very quickly, since they are so predictable.
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by badnewzxl » Jan 26th, '11, 01:28

Big Red Machine wrote:MITB works well as a limited concept, but I think it has almost run its course. There are only so many angles you can work from it:

1. Heel wins by cashing in on an injured/tired babyface (Edge)
1b. Heel injures the babyface himself, then cashes in.

2. Heel does the same as #1, but loses, leading to the heel either
a) snapping, and just going nuts
or b) realizing that cheating doesn't work, and thus vowing to do better and becoming a babyface

3. Arrogant/Ego-maniacal Heel wants to be the center of attention, so he wants until Mania to cash in (Mr. Kennedy)

4. Babyface announces his title shot in advance, like a babyface should (RVD)

5. Babyface cashes in on a disadvantaged face, thus turning heel because the title is what is important (Punk)

6. MITB winner has his shot ruined via DQ, thus setting up for a real match.


WWE has done most of these already, and many of them (especially #1) get old very quickly, since they are so predictable.
GREAT points.

And I gotta say, I'm very upset that WWE never mentions how Punk cashed his first one in. I don't think they ever acknowledged how Punk kept Raw from being champion-less after that draft when he cashed MITB on Edge. Nor have I heard Punk bring it up to throw it in anyone's face. He could claim to be the reason Raw still exists....
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by Cactus Jack Manson » Jan 26th, '11, 12:45

The only way for me to believe that the MITB winner is credible of having a world title shot, is if he also beats the top contenders while holding onto the briefcase. At least Edge & RVD did so before they won there first WWE Championships.
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by cero2k » Jan 26th, '11, 14:02

badnewzxl wrote: how would he have HAD to use bc Taker got injured? He still could have waited til WM. Plus, Edge is the one who beat Taker for it. I just don't follow. despite his injury, Kennedy could have still held the briefcase til WM; he was good enough on the mic to still be featured on the show without being in the ring (hell, they let Miz get away with barely performing for the last quarter of last year (an performing poorly in the ring ALL year). It just doesn't makes sense to me....
I meant booking wise, they needed a new champ ASAP, and figured that MITB briefcase was a good way to do it without having to explain why such and such would get a title shot AND defeat taker, here he was gonna simply "capitalize" on the opportunity.
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Re: Money In The Bank? Who actually needs it?

Post by cero2k » Jan 26th, '11, 14:05

Big Red Machine wrote:MITB works well as a limited concept, but I think it has almost run its course. There are only so many angles you can work from it:

1. Heel wins by cashing in on an injured/tired babyface (Edge)
1b. Heel injures the babyface himself, then cashes in.

2. Heel does the same as #1, but loses, leading to the heel either
a) snapping, and just going nuts
or b) realizing that cheating doesn't work, and thus vowing to do better and becoming a babyface

3. Arrogant/Ego-maniacal Heel wants to be the center of attention, so he wants until Mania to cash in (Mr. Kennedy)

4. Babyface announces his title shot in advance, like a babyface should (RVD)

5. Babyface cashes in on a disadvantaged face, thus turning heel because the title is what is important (Punk)

6. MITB winner has his shot ruined via DQ, thus setting up for a real match.


WWE has done most of these already, and many of them (especially #1) get old very quickly, since they are so predictable.
there's also Face cashes in on defeated heel and saves the world from a reign of terror (punk's first). The heel has to brag about being taken advantage of...
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