NJPW G1 Climax 27: Day 3 (7/21/2017)- Tokyo, Japan


DAVID FINLAY JR. & JUICE ROBINSON vs. LOS INGOBERNABLES DE JAPON (Hiromu Takahashi & EVIL)- 5.75/10
Decent little match. EVIL keeps a hold locked on after the match to try to injure Juice going into their match tomorrow.

LOS INGOBERNABLES DE JAPON (Sanada & BUSHI) vs. SUZUKI-GUN (Minoru Suzuki & Taichi) (w/El Desperado)- 3/10
They wasted about half of the match with the usual boring Suzuki-Gun “drag you into the crowd and press a chair into you” spot. Then they got back to the ring and Suzuki and Sanada did some good stuff together. Then the Junior Heavyweights got in there and we got WAY too much physical abuse of the official, ending in completely pointless dirty finish in this totally meaningless match between two heel factions.

BULLET CLUB (Chase Owens & Tama Tonga) vs. BULLET CLUB (Kenny Omega & Yujiro Takahashi)- 0.25/10
The idea here was that they went out here intending to put on a farce and not hurt each other, but then Tama Tonga betrayed Kenny Omega by trying to give me the competitive wrestling match I came to see. Why is this behavior kayfabe tolerated? And when you take Bullet Club’s antics when they had to face off in the past two G1s into account (both times there was a Fingerpoke of Doom plan in place that was reneged on at the last moment), even booking them against each other at all here makes New Japan look stupid. Now that I think about it, including Tama Tonga in the G1 at all just sets them up for the risk of a Fingerpoke of Doom tomorrow night, destroying the integrity of the tournament. And no, there was absolutely no reason that this match had to happen. I don’t care if your precious little pattern is to book guys who face off in the next show in tag matches against each other on the undercard; the kayfabe integrity of your promotion is more important than that. Is Gabe Sapolsky the only booker left who understands that the basic premise of pro wrestling is that it is a legit combat sport, and thus anything that happens that appears to infringe upon the integrity of that sport needs to have kayfabe repercussions? Because it really feels that way.
Anyway, we had that going on, as well as this supposedly funny story that Chase Owens is everyone’s bitch and does whatever they say and lets them scream at him. Good luck getting me to take him seriously again the next time you want me to (you know, like, tomorrow night). Eventually we got something resembling a real wrestling match, but even during this portion of it Tama Tonga was making all manner of high-pitched cartoony noises. The idea that they decided to do THIS the night before doing what they would do tomorrow night shows that no one in this company has anything that even resembles good judgment.

MICHAEL ELGIN, SATOSHI KOJIMA, & HIROYOSHI TENZAN vs. CHAOS (Toru Yano, Gedo, & Kazuchika Okada)- 5.75/10
Over the past two shows Yano has hit both Okada and Gedo in the groin in an attempt to cheat them out of wrestling matches. The fact that he has not been kicked out of CHAOS is completely unbelievable to me. It’s not like he actually brings anything to the table! He just cheats, grandstands, and uses everyone else to sell his own DVDs. Why is his presence tolerated by ANYONE?
Anyway, stuff happened in this match. There was a bit of stuff to get me hyped up for tomorrow night’s Okada vs. Elgin main event, but not too much.

BLOCK A MATCH: Yuji Nagata vs. Hirooki Goto- 7.75/10
Two men trying really hard to win a wrestling match. And that’s all you really need.

BLOCK A MATCH: Bad Luck Fale vs. Tomohiro Ishii- 8.5/10
This is what your usual Ishii match would be like if he didn’t do any the sh*t that annoys the hell out of me.

BLOCK A MATCH: Kota Ibushi vs. Zack Sabre Jr. (w/El Desperado)- 8.75/10
The story here was that Zack would outwrestle Kota and start to work on a body part until Kota cut him off with some sort of big strike. Kota would then have the advantage for a while, but things would always wind up going back to, as Cyrus kept referring to it “Zack Sabre Jr.’s match.” Zack Sabre Jr.’s style of match is pretty much always awesome, and Kota Ibushi’s selling is pretty much always awesome, so it should come as no surprise that this match was particularly awesome. The only thing that bothers me about it is the booking, as I felt that Zack would have benefited more from a win over Kota here than Kota benefits from beating Zack (even though Zack won his match on the opening night while Kota lost his). I think Zack needs that extra boost to establish him, while Kota is already well-established enough that starting off 0-2 won’t hurt his perception.

BLOCK A MATCH: Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Bad Luck Fale- 6/10
That first spot was so great I was kind of hoping Tanahashi would get the win right there. The story of the match was Tanahashi using his brains and his speed and his athleticism to counter Fale’s size and strength advantage, and they told that story decently well, aside from that one spot where some Tanahashi, bad arm and all, decided to try to give Fale a bodyslam, which worked out about as well as you would think it would for Tanahashi and make him look kind of stupid.

BLOCK A MATCH: YOSHI-HASHI vs. Tetsuya Naito- 8/10
YOSHI-HASHI put up a really great fight, working over basically any body part he could get his hands on, but Naito’s work on his neck was too much and he eventually succumbed to Naito countering Karma into a Destino-type move which YOSHI-HASHI kicked out of but then Naito hit the Destino for the victory, a sequence similar to how he beat Ibushi on the opening night of the tournament.

An excellent show from the guys in the G1, but quite the turd from the undercard.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jul 24th, '17, 17:23

BULLET CLUB (Chase Owens & Tama Tonga) vs. BULLET CLUB (Kenny Omega & Yujiro Takahashi)- 0.25/10
The idea here was that they went out here intending to put on a farce and not hurt each other, but then Tama Tonga betrayed Kenny Omega by trying to give me the competitive wrestling match I came to see. Why is this behavior kayfabe tolerated? And when you take Bullet Club’s antics when they had to face off in the past two G1s into account (both times there was a Fingerpoke of Doom plan in place that was reneged on at the last moment), even booking them against each other at all here makes New Japan look stupid. Now that I think about it, including Tama Tonga in the G1 at all just sets them up for the risk of a Fingerpoke of Doom tomorrow night, destroying the integrity of the tournament. And no, there was absolutely no reason that this match had to happen. I don’t care if your precious little pattern is to book guys who face off in the next show in tag matches against each other on the undercard; the kayfabe integrity of your promotion is more important than that. Is Gabe Sapolsky the only booker left who understands that the basic premise of pro wrestling is that it is a legit combat sport, and thus anything that happens that appears to infringe upon the integrity of that sport needs to have kayfabe repercussions? Because it really feels that way.
Anyway, we had that going on, as well as this supposedly funny story that Chase Owens is everyone’s bitch and does whatever they say and lets them scream at him. Good luck getting me to take him seriously again the next time you want me to (you know, like, tomorrow night). Eventually we got something resembling a real wrestling match, but even during this portion of it Tama Tonga was making all manner of high-pitched cartoony noises. The idea that they decided to do THIS the night before doing what they would do tomorrow night shows that no one in this company has anything that even resembles good judgment.

I'm not really sure if you hated the match (which was a great angle), or the fact that the match existed to begin with

Also, Chase Owens IS the bitch of bullet club, there's really no need to take him serious at the moment. He's like the BC young lion to me.

cero2k wrote: ↑Jul 25th, '17, 09:41

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jul 24th, '17, 17:23

BULLET CLUB (Chase Owens & Tama Tonga) vs. BULLET CLUB (Kenny Omega & Yujiro Takahashi)- 0.25/10
The idea here was that they went out here intending to put on a farce and not hurt each other, but then Tama Tonga betrayed Kenny Omega by trying to give me the competitive wrestling match I came to see. Why is this behavior kayfabe tolerated? And when you take Bullet Club’s antics when they had to face off in the past two G1s into account (both times there was a Fingerpoke of Doom plan in place that was reneged on at the last moment), even booking them against each other at all here makes New Japan look stupid. Now that I think about it, including Tama Tonga in the G1 at all just sets them up for the risk of a Fingerpoke of Doom tomorrow night, destroying the integrity of the tournament. And no, there was absolutely no reason that this match had to happen. I don’t care if your precious little pattern is to book guys who face off in the next show in tag matches against each other on the undercard; the kayfabe integrity of your promotion is more important than that. Is Gabe Sapolsky the only booker left who understands that the basic premise of pro wrestling is that it is a legit combat sport, and thus anything that happens that appears to infringe upon the integrity of that sport needs to have kayfabe repercussions? Because it really feels that way.
Anyway, we had that going on, as well as this supposedly funny story that Chase Owens is everyone’s bitch and does whatever they say and lets them scream at him. Good luck getting me to take him seriously again the next time you want me to (you know, like, tomorrow night). Eventually we got something resembling a real wrestling match, but even during this portion of it Tama Tonga was making all manner of high-pitched cartoony noises. The idea that they decided to do THIS the night before doing what they would do tomorrow night shows that no one in this company has anything that even resembles good judgment.

I'm not really sure if you hated the match (which was a great angle), or the fact that the match existed to begin with

Both... although if they hadn't started this match off the way they did I probably wouldn't have been quite so annoyed with the fact that it existed. As for the idea that this was somehow a "great angle"... why? Yes, they gave you a hook for the next night's match, but then the next night's match took things in a direction that didn't follow up on this match at all (especially when you realize that the tights that so greatly offended Tama Tonga the next night are the same ones that Kenny wore tonight and Tama Tonga had no problem with them at all).

cero2k wrote: ↑Jul 25th, '17, 09:41 Also, Chase Owens IS the bitch of bullet club, there's really no need to take him serious at the moment. He's like the BC young lion to me.

Except that he has never been portrayed that way until now. He's certainly the lowest guy on the totem pole in terms of accomplishments (and probably wrestling ability, too, though I'm not so hot on Tanga Loa, either), but in terms of the respect due to him he always been portrayed as an equal, until this very moment when all of a sudden he's their bitch because they need it to happen for some spots in a comedy match they want to do.
You say he's like their young-boy, but you forget that they had a young-boy once: Cody Hall. And they never treated him like this.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jul 25th, '17, 10:00
Both... although if they hadn't started this match off the way they did I probably wouldn't have been quite so annoyed with the fact that it existed. As for the idea that this was somehow a "great angle"... why? Yes, they gave you a hook for the next night's match, but then the next night's match took things in a direction that didn't follow up on this match at all (especially when you realize that the tights that so greatly offended Tama Tonga the next night are the same ones that Kenny wore tonight and Tama Tonga had no problem with them at all).

You know what, i totally forgot that you may have not seen Tonga vs Omega from tomorrow. To me that match gave me perfect perspective on Tonga's behavior. This is not about tights, this is over the whole power struggle between Cody and Omega, between Elite and Bullet Club. Tonga is definitely on Cody's side, Tonga is an original. Omega came in wanting a plan to protect himself (obviously planned in the back), and Tonga (going by storyline) didn't see why protect him when Tonga himself can get a win on him. Tonga saw this match as just stablemante's competition, completely understandable to work on Kenny's leg, but Kenny's overreaction and how he started talking shit is what triggered Tonga and why by the end Tonga wasn't holding back on calling Kenny out on his shit.

As to why the match existed, I can't say, we've had the same deal with all of the other stables, it doesn't really bother me because we get different situations. the LIJ match was all competition, same with CHAOS, the Suzuki-Gun ones tend to be shenanigans, but then again, all their matches usually are. I like the idea of doing multiman matches before their tournament matches, it teases me on the big match, it's like a trailer of what can we get.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jul 25th, '17, 10:00 Except that he has never been portrayed that way until now. He's certainly the lowest guy on the totem pole in terms of accomplishments (and probably wrestling ability, too, though I'm not so hot on Tanga Loa, either), but in terms of the respect due to him he always been portrayed as an equal, until this very moment when all of a sudden he's their bitch because they need it to happen for some spots in a comedy match they want to do.
You say he's like their young-boy, but you forget that they had a young-boy once: Cody Hall. And they never treated him like this.

I've always seen him as the lowest in the pole, even when Cody Hall was there (who had the size, so that may had been a reason). To me Chase is kinda like the guy who is not part of the club, but he just likes to hang around with them all the time. I saw value in him when he was the only Jr singles guy, but then they had Kenny and then Scurll and now Chase doesn't even get the NWA rub anyway.

cero2k wrote: ↑Jul 25th, '17, 10:29

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jul 25th, '17, 10:00
Both... although if they hadn't started this match off the way they did I probably wouldn't have been quite so annoyed with the fact that it existed. As for the idea that this was somehow a "great angle"... why? Yes, they gave you a hook for the next night's match, but then the next night's match took things in a direction that didn't follow up on this match at all (especially when you realize that the tights that so greatly offended Tama Tonga the next night are the same ones that Kenny wore tonight and Tama Tonga had no problem with them at all).

You know what, i totally forgot that you may have not seen Tonga vs Omega from tomorrow. To me that match gave me perfect perspective on Tonga's behavior. This is not about tights, this is over the whole power struggle between Cody and Omega, between Elite and Bullet Club. Tonga is definitely on Cody's side, Tonga is an original. Omega came in wanting a plan to protect himself (obviously planned in the back), and Tonga (going by storyline) didn't see why protect him when Tonga himself can get a win on him. Tonga saw this match as just stablemante's competition, completely understandable to work on Kenny's leg, but Kenny's overreaction and how he started talking shit is what triggered Tonga and why by the end Tonga wasn't holding back on calling Kenny out on his shit.

I have seen the next night's match. I actually saw it before I saw this one, and added a few paragraphs into my review about how this match took away from the larger narrative that that match seemed to be trying to create. You are looking at this as if it was a plan to protect Kenny and Kenny alone, but the actions of Tonga and Yujiro in that opening spot indicated to me that it was not merely a plan to protect Kenny. It was a plan to protect all four of them (but especially Kenny and Tonga) from injury (and I think is backed up by Owens still being reluctant to hurt Kenny for a bit, even after Tonga's underhanded treachery). I think both went in with the understanding that tomorrow night's match would be, as you put it "stablemate's competition" (unless they had some further nefarious plan, but we'll never know now) but that tonight's match was about making sure that no one took any unnecessary punishment that would hurt them later in the G1. Tonga's behavior- scolding Owens for accidentally hurting Kenny, then tricking Kenny into thinking he is still playing along with the plan only to immediately betray him- is thus an act of selfishness. He went back on a deal because he wanted to gain an advantage going into their match tomorrow rather than winning said advantage fairly during the match.
His behavior the next night was very much the opposite. It was Tonga scolding Kenny for his (and the Bucks') selfishness at the expense of the rest of the stable. As you said, he is an original, and thus would take Kenny's affront to the stable via forming his own subgroup that he is trying to promote very seriously- which is exactly what he did the next night. But that is undermined by him trying to screw Kenny for totally different (and selfish) reasons here. It is also hurt by the fact that there is absolutely no reason he shouldn't have been just as offended by Kenny's tights tonight. In fact, he should have been even more offended tonight because Kenny was teaming with a non-Elite Bullet Club member here and yet still chose to wear his Elite tights.
Tonga is an original, but Cody is not. As i will explain in my review of Day 4 (which I guess I should finish up, shouldn't I?), I don't think that "Tonga is on Cody's side." I think that Tonga is on the side of what is best for Bullet Club, and Cody will take advantage of this issue between Tonga and Kenny (and the Bucks) to worm his way into a position where he co-opts the more noble side of "what is best for Bullet Club" not because he is interested in what is best for Bullet Club, but because he is interested in what is best for Cody, and that means finding a way to overthrow Omega as leader of Bullet Club.

cero2k wrote: ↑Jul 25th, '17, 10:29 As to why the match existed, I can't say, we've had the same deal with all of the other stables, it doesn't really bother me because we get different situations. the LIJ match was all competition, same with CHAOS, the Suzuki-Gun ones tend to be shenanigans, but then again, all their matches usually are. I like the idea of doing multiman matches before their tournament matches, it teases me on the big match, it's like a trailer of what can we get.

I think they are, in most cases, unnecessary. We shouldn't need a teaser. It's the freakin' G1 and most of the matches should be an exciting concept on their own merits, either for potentially high workrate or for kayfabe importance. In some cases, where we don't quite know how the guys will match up (Suzuki vs. Sanada being a good recent example) then I think it's a good idea, but in most of these cases I think it's just a big waste of time. But my larger point is that this match shouldn't happen not because stablemates shouldn't fight but because Bullet Club in particular have shown to be willing to stoop what is essentially match-fixing, and that shouldn't be tolerated. Last year's G1 used the same "teaser matches" format, but when Tonga and Fale were going to face off, they specifically broke the pattern so that Bullet Club would not face Bullet Club.
Personally, I'd like to see them expand the G1 to twelve guys per block and do six block matches each show but with only two undercard matches, and have them be eight-man or ten-man tags. That way you're limiting the number of pointless matches per show, and you can even book it in such a way as to give guys some real, actual days off on the other block's show. New Japan's fealty to certain booking patterns is irrationally slavish, to the point where I think it really hurts the product by loading up card with pointless filler matches, forcing them into situations that create questions they will never answer, and reducing the number of possible match-ups by cramming everyone into a stable and making sure they don't fight each other unless a tournament makes it absolutely necessary, no matter how obvious such a match-up would be to any competent booker of anything ever (Nakamura pins IWGP Heavyweight Champion Okada in the G1 but doesn't get a title shot because they're in the same stable? F*ck that. That match would have drawn an INSANE amount of money, to the point where they is no reason that New Japan didn't book it, unless we are to conclude that New Japan cares more about CHAOS guys not fighting each other than they do about making money and trying to ensure that every champion truly is the best wrestler in his division).

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jul 25th, '17, 10:00 Except that he has never been portrayed that way until now. He's certainly the lowest guy on the totem pole in terms of accomplishments (and probably wrestling ability, too, though I'm not so hot on Tanga Loa, either), but in terms of the respect due to him he always been portrayed as an equal, until this very moment when all of a sudden he's their bitch because they need it to happen for some spots in a comedy match they want to do.
You say he's like their young-boy, but you forget that they had a young-boy once: Cody Hall. And they never treated him like this.

I've always seen him as the lowest in the pole, even when Cody Hall was there (who had the size, so that may had been a reason). To me Chase is kinda like the guy who is not part of the club, but he just likes to hang around with them all the time. I saw value in him when he was the only Jr singles guy, but then they had Kenny and then Scurll and now Chase doesn't even get the NWA rub anyway.
[/quote]
I'm disputing that he has come off that way. He is a guy who was clearly added in because they decided that Bullet Club absolutely needed to have a second team in the 2015 Super Junior Tag Tournament (could they really not get a single guy from CMLL or NOAH or some other promotion? [they already had basically every Junior Heavyweight tag team in ROH at the time aside from ACH/Sydal, and that's because Sydal was teaming with Ricochet]). But I don't think that has ever been New Japan's intention, because if it was, they would have done something to make it more obvious before now (previous to this it was basically just a humorous observation by smarks). Now, all of a sudden, they all start treating him like he's an idiot, and the only reason they did so was because they wanted to do a comedy match. If he continues to be treated in such a manner, it will be because the gag got over this one time, and thus they will do it in every match because that's what Kenny and the Bucks and Dalton Castle and the like do, and not because Gedo wants some sort of story to be told with it, but he also won't care enough to put his foot down, either, because if it's not a singles belt, he doesn't give a sh*t.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jul 25th, '17, 12:01
I have seen the next night's match. I actually saw it before I saw this one, and added a few paragraphs into my review about how this match took away from the larger narrative that that match seemed to be trying to create. You are looking at this as if it was a plan to protect Kenny and Kenny alone, but the actions of Tonga and Yujiro in that opening spot indicated to me that it was not merely a plan to protect Kenny. It was a plan to protect all four of them (but especially Kenny and Tonga) from injury (and I think is backed up by Owens still being reluctant to hurt Kenny for a bit, even after Tonga's underhanded treachery). I think both went in with the understanding that tomorrow night's match would be, as you put it "stablemate's competition" (unless they had some further nefarious plan, but we'll never know now) but that tonight's match was about making sure that no one took any unnecessary punishment that would hurt them later in the G1. Tonga's behavior- scolding Owens for accidentally hurting Kenny, then tricking Kenny into thinking he is still playing along with the plan only to immediately betray him- is thus an act of selfishness. He went back on a deal because he wanted to gain an advantage going into their match tomorrow rather than winning said advantage fairly during the match.
His behavior the next night was very much the opposite. It was Tonga scolding Kenny for his (and the Bucks') selfishness at the expense of the rest of the stable. As you said, he is an original, and thus would take Kenny's affront to the stable via forming his own subgroup that he is trying to promote very seriously- which is exactly what he did the next night. But that is undermined by him trying to screw Kenny for totally different (and selfish) reasons here. It is also hurt by the fact that there is absolutely no reason he shouldn't have been just as offended by Kenny's tights tonight. In fact, he should have been even more offended tonight because Kenny was teaming with a non-Elite Bullet Club member here and yet still chose to wear his Elite tights.
Tonga is an original, but Cody is not. As i will explain in my review of Day 4 (which I guess I should finish up, shouldn't I?), I don't think that "Tonga is on Cody's side." I think that Tonga is on the side of what is best for Bullet Club, and Cody will take advantage of this issue between Tonga and Kenny (and the Bucks) to worm his way into a position where he co-opts the more noble side of "what is best for Bullet Club" not because he is interested in what is best for Bullet Club, but because he is interested in what is best for Cody, and that means finding a way to overthrow Omega as leader of Bullet Club.

OK, so we agree on the first part, it's pretty much the same idea. At that point in Tonga not playing the plan is selfishness, wanting to get the upper hand, a definite lack of respect towards the 'leader'. Now, to me the behavior of the next night is all about Kenny's reaction during this show, it's all related, it's the same antagonistic reaction from Tonga because Kenny pissed him off for trying to scold him for not following the 'plan' especially because Tonga already has some feelings about Kenny being the leader and not focusing on BC. At the end of this match, Tonga's reaction is all rebellion as in his fed up with Kenny thinking the BC revolves around him. I really don't think you should give the tights that much importance.

All the promo from the next fight is Tonga being frustrated and calling out Omega on something that no one (not even Cody) had mentioned up until now. I'm not saying that Tonga is on Cody's side as in he wants Cody to be the leader, but I think Cody has sweettalked Tonga more than Kenny has and as you say, he may consider Cody as doing better for the BC than Kenny is. Going by Dominion and the G1 Special, i feel there is a sentiment inside the BC that Kenny is using BC for his own gain to get the matches against Okada and eventually Ibushi, Okada was extra antagonizing when Cody and Okada fought.

cero2k wrote: ↑Jul 25th, '17, 10:29 I think they are, in most cases, unnecessary. We shouldn't need a teaser. It's the freakin' G1 and most of the matches should be an exciting concept on their own merits, either for potentially high workrate or for kayfabe importance. In some cases, where we don't quite know how the guys will match up (Suzuki vs. Sanada being a good recent example) then I think it's a good idea, but in most of these cases I think it's just a big waste of time. But my larger point is that this match shouldn't happen not because stablemates shouldn't fight but because Bullet Club in particular have shown to be willing to stoop what is essentially match-fixing, and that shouldn't be tolerated. Last year's G1 used the same "teaser matches" format, but when Tonga and Fale were going to face off, they specifically broke the pattern so that Bullet Club would not face Bullet Club.

It's not only the teases, but several matches had started little things that are used in the upcoming match. Suzuki attacking Robinson for instance, which up until that match, we had no reason to believe Juice was hurt, nor care about a Suzuki vs Robinson match. I get your argument against BC vs BC matches, but gedo would have to be a really anal booker to avoid booking that match just because of something that happened a full year ago with two different guys, and the way I see it, if I do this match here, you can start some tension between the wrestlers of the next day, so i rather they fuck this match and not the G1 match.

this is from today, Tonga has it for Omega

cero2k wrote: ↑Jul 25th, '17, 16:03

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jul 25th, '17, 12:01
I have seen the next night's match. I actually saw it before I saw this one, and added a few paragraphs into my review about how this match took away from the larger narrative that that match seemed to be trying to create. You are looking at this as if it was a plan to protect Kenny and Kenny alone, but the actions of Tonga and Yujiro in that opening spot indicated to me that it was not merely a plan to protect Kenny. It was a plan to protect all four of them (but especially Kenny and Tonga) from injury (and I think is backed up by Owens still being reluctant to hurt Kenny for a bit, even after Tonga's underhanded treachery). I think both went in with the understanding that tomorrow night's match would be, as you put it "stablemate's competition" (unless they had some further nefarious plan, but we'll never know now) but that tonight's match was about making sure that no one took any unnecessary punishment that would hurt them later in the G1. Tonga's behavior- scolding Owens for accidentally hurting Kenny, then tricking Kenny into thinking he is still playing along with the plan only to immediately betray him- is thus an act of selfishness. He went back on a deal because he wanted to gain an advantage going into their match tomorrow rather than winning said advantage fairly during the match.
His behavior the next night was very much the opposite. It was Tonga scolding Kenny for his (and the Bucks') selfishness at the expense of the rest of the stable. As you said, he is an original, and thus would take Kenny's affront to the stable via forming his own subgroup that he is trying to promote very seriously- which is exactly what he did the next night. But that is undermined by him trying to screw Kenny for totally different (and selfish) reasons here. It is also hurt by the fact that there is absolutely no reason he shouldn't have been just as offended by Kenny's tights tonight. In fact, he should have been even more offended tonight because Kenny was teaming with a non-Elite Bullet Club member here and yet still chose to wear his Elite tights.
Tonga is an original, but Cody is not. As i will explain in my review of Day 4 (which I guess I should finish up, shouldn't I?), I don't think that "Tonga is on Cody's side." I think that Tonga is on the side of what is best for Bullet Club, and Cody will take advantage of this issue between Tonga and Kenny (and the Bucks) to worm his way into a position where he co-opts the more noble side of "what is best for Bullet Club" not because he is interested in what is best for Bullet Club, but because he is interested in what is best for Cody, and that means finding a way to overthrow Omega as leader of Bullet Club.

OK, so we agree on the first part, it's pretty much the same idea. At that point in Tonga not playing the plan is selfishness, wanting to get the upper hand, a definite lack of respect towards the 'leader'. Now, to me the behavior of the next night is all about Kenny's reaction during this show, it's all related, it's the same antagonistic reaction from Tonga because Kenny pissed him off for trying to scold him for not following the 'plan' especially because Tonga already has some feelings about Kenny being the leader and not focusing on BC. At the end of this match, Tonga's reaction is all rebellion as in his fed up with Kenny thinking the BC revolves around him. I really don't think you should give the tights that much importance.

All the promo from the next fight is Tonga being frustrated and calling out Omega on something that no one (not even Cody) had mentioned up until now. I'm not saying that Tonga is on Cody's side as in he wants Cody to be the leader, but I think Cody has sweettalked Tonga more than Kenny has and as you say, he may consider Cody as doing better for the BC than Kenny is. Going by Dominion and the G1 Special, i feel there is a sentiment inside the BC that Kenny is using BC for his own gain to get the matches against Okada and eventually Ibushi, Okada was extra antagonizing when Cody and Okada fought.

The tights are the thing he referenced, though, not last night's argument. I am reading Tonga calling Kenny out for his tights as the start of Tonga's frustration with Kenny. I don't think Cody has done any sweet-talking yet. I think that Cody uses this rift as way to position himself as the better person to be the leader. I think Cody's sweet-talking of Tonga (and the others) begins after this match. Cody has no interest in Bullet Club besides how he can use it to ensure his own success (art imitating life, LOL), and he sees this as the means by he can wrest leadership of the stable away from Omega, which results in Omega and the Bucks being kicked out (I don't see them breaking up the unit, so the Bucks would need to turn babyface. Plus, the fans love them no matter what they do why why not have them be babyfaces?). Doing it this way also makes Cody the ultimate heel rather than being noble like Tonga.

cero2k wrote: ↑Jul 25th, '17, 10:29

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jul 25th, '17, 12:01 I think they are, in most cases, unnecessary. We shouldn't need a teaser. It's the freakin' G1 and most of the matches should be an exciting concept on their own merits, either for potentially high workrate or for kayfabe importance. In some cases, where we don't quite know how the guys will match up (Suzuki vs. Sanada being a good recent example) then I think it's a good idea, but in most of these cases I think it's just a big waste of time. But my larger point is that this match shouldn't happen not because stablemates shouldn't fight but because Bullet Club in particular have shown to be willing to stoop what is essentially match-fixing, and that shouldn't be tolerated. Last year's G1 used the same "teaser matches" format, but when Tonga and Fale were going to face off, they specifically broke the pattern so that Bullet Club would not face Bullet Club.

It's not only the teases, but several matches had started little things that are used in the upcoming match. Suzuki attacking Robinson for instance, which up until that match, we had no reason to believe Juice was hurt, nor care about a Suzuki vs Robinson match. I get your argument against BC vs BC matches, but gedo would have to be a really anal booker to avoid booking that match just because of something that happened a full year ago with two different guys, and the way I see it, if I do this match here, you can start some tension between the wrestlers of the next day, so i rather they fuck this match and not the G1 match.

As I explained above, I think the tension building between these two guys hurts the overall story. As for it taking a really anal booker to avoid booking a match because of something that happened last year, that's called attention to detail (and it has actually happened the year before, too, so it almost feels like Bullet Club's thing in the G1). The G1 is one of New Japan's biggest events of the year, and New Japan rarely does any angles at all, so if you're going to do an angle during the G1, it's something that you damn well should remember.
As for the teaser matches playing into the G1 matches... it rarely actually matter to the G1 match. Last year Naito put his opponent in that leg submission he uses after almost every single one of his matches, it rarely ever mattered to those matches.

Here is the entirety of what Dave Meltzer had to say about this match:


I'm glad Dave could shed so much light on this controversial situation.

Keep up the good work there, Dave.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jul 27th, '17, 00:37 Here is the entirety of what Dave Meltzer had to say about this match:

Hidden text.

3. Kenny Omega & Yujiro Takahashi beat Tama Tonga & Chase Owens in 7:45 when Takahashi pinned Owens with Pimp Juice. This was a rare Bullet Club vs. Bullet Club match to set up Omega vs. Tonga the next day.

I'm glad Dave could shed so much light on this controversial situation.

Keep up the good work there, Dave.

hahha yeah, i'm pretty sure Dave just plays the undercard in the background while he's doing something else. Sometimes i think that's how he watches every show, I wish I had the experience to review shows having them just in the background

cero2k wrote: ↑Jul 27th, '17, 09:10

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jul 27th, '17, 00:37 Here is the entirety of what Dave Meltzer had to say about this match:

Hidden text.

3. Kenny Omega & Yujiro Takahashi beat Tama Tonga & Chase Owens in 7:45 when Takahashi pinned Owens with Pimp Juice. This was a rare Bullet Club vs. Bullet Club match to set up Omega vs. Tonga the next day.

I'm glad Dave could shed so much light on this controversial situation.

Keep up the good work there, Dave.

hahha yeah, i'm pretty sure Dave just plays the undercard in the background while he's doing something else. Sometimes i think that's how he watches every show, I wish I had the experience to review shows having them just in the background

I don't think it's possible, because if you have the match on in the background while you're doing something else, you could miss something small but significant. I sometimes don't realize important things when I'm totally paying attention (I wrote off Prince Puma randomly grabbing at his head on last week's LU as selling, but Bryan & Vinny pointed out that he was playing up the "visions" thing that they established in the opening segment with Vampiro).
I think that Dave often just plain doesn't get storylines that are anything beyond the most basic of concepts unless you beat him over the head with it. When it comes to WWE it seems like he is getting the "where this is going" info from his sources in WWE, rather than Alvarez and the F4W crew, or the PWTorch crew or... well, pretty much everyone else, who analyze what is in front of them and guess at where things might be going. The stories in, for example, Lucha Underground, are fairly simple to understand (and when they don't want you to understand exactly what is happening yet, they make it feel like a mystery that they will reveal the answers to when the time is right), but Dave saying that he doesn't get them is really kind of worrying. It would also explain his lack of criticism of ROH and New Japan's storytelling: because he's fine being told that "this is the story now" without being given any sort of reasoning for why this suddenly became the story, and just doesn't understand the issues with how a lack of attention to detail undermines effective storytelling. Thus, if you stick something in front of him that makes use of mystery and symbolism and mirroring and other wonderful literary devices, Dave is completely lost.