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Mustafa Ali will not be leaving WWE for years, according to a report.

Fightful Select reports that WWE has refused to grant Ali's public request to be released from his contract, a contract that has "years" left on it. The report states that Ali and WWE have been in contact since he made his request on Sunday, and that the company has told Ali that they will not grant the release now, and have no plans to in the future.

Ali has been gone from WWE television since November. An earlier report states that a "heated" argument with Vince McMahon over a pitch that McMahon made to Ali regarding his character was the catalyst for Ali not appearing on TV.

In a social media post this past Sunday, Ali stated:

"I have a message that is much bigger than my dreams in pro wrestling. Despite my best efforts, I will not be able to deliver this message while working with WWE.

Therefore, I am requesting my release from WWE."

Fire the people who want to work there
Keep the ones that don't want to work there.

Business 101

I think this is pretty clearly a case of Vince being petty.


That being said, it wouldn't shock me if Vince has done some sort of crazy-person calculus and after the Big Swole thing, he thinks he can make TK look bad by not giving him the chance to bring in and push wrestlers of color.

They’ve dropped the ball on Ali several times now, so it’s 100% fair that he asked for his release. Particularly if the current senile old vince presented some inappropriate or whack direction with his booking.

But they’ll probably go for the whole “if you want to leave, you’ll have to breach contract” route, see if that tactic works in the current climate.

XIV wrote: ↑Jan 21st, '22, 13:10 They’ve dropped the ball on Ali several times now, so it’s 100% fair that he asked for his release. Particularly if the current senile old vince presented some inappropriate or whack direction with his booking.

But they’ll probably go for the whole “if you want to leave, you’ll have to breach contract” route, see if that tactic works in the current climate.

what gets me is that not releasing someone must mean that they realize he has value and could be an asset to AEW, yet knowing he has value doesn't translate to using that value

cero2k wrote: ↑Jan 22nd, '22, 14:58

XIV wrote: ↑Jan 21st, '22, 13:10 They’ve dropped the ball on Ali several times now, so it’s 100% fair that he asked for his release. Particularly if the current senile old vince presented some inappropriate or whack direction with his booking.

But they’ll probably go for the whole “if you want to leave, you’ll have to breach contract” route, see if that tactic works in the current climate.

what gets me is that not releasing someone must mean that they realize he has value and could be an asset to AEW, yet knowing he has value doesn't translate to using that value

Unless Vince doesn't see the actual value and only sees a superficial kind of value, like not wanting to give AEW a person of color to push with buzz in the follow-up to the Swole/TK thing. It's insane, but I think at this point Vince thinks this way.

I know it's easy and "cool" to dunk on Vince because "he's a senile old man who lost his mind years ago" or whatever, but maybe he's actually seeing something in Ali and trying to work out whatever his issues might be. Like, wasn't Ali supposed to be in Kingston's place a few years ago and won the belt from Bryan at WM before he got injured? Also maybe that's just me, but I'm not sure if I'd be relieved or feeling like shit if I went to my boss because "it's not working out" or something and (s)he immediately accepted my resignation without trying to do a thing to change my mind.

Since we're talking about AEW yet again, would Ali really enjoy being... tokenized(?) because Tiny just can't shut the fuck up once in a while? I can understand why people like Nyla Rose and Sonny Kiss took the deal because it was either that or working shitty indies for pennies, but would it really be an upgrade to leave THE EVIL FED PRISON to become a tool for Tiny to show he pretends to care about ethnicities (only for him to most likely get bored by week 3 and send Ali in catering to be "rotated" on the Youtube shows until his time comes again)?

Thelone wrote: ↑Jan 23rd, '22, 19:30 I know it's easy and "cool" to dunk on Vince because "he's a senile old man who lost his mind years ago" or whatever, but maybe he's actually seeing something in Ali and trying to work out whatever his issues might be. Like, wasn't Ali supposed to be in Kingston's place a few years ago and won the belt from Bryan at WM before he got injured? Also maybe that's just me, but I'm not sure if I'd be relieved or feeling like shit if I went to my boss because "it's not working out" or something and (s)he immediately accepted my resignation without trying to do a thing to change my mind.

Yes, but remember that it was the whole Kofi-Mania thing that wasn't supposed to happen. The spot wasn't a spot to get the world title in the end. It was just to win a gauntlet match and be in the Elimination Chamber. There is very little reason to assume it would have been much more than filler. (Ali did get to pin Bryan a few months prior, but they didn't follow up on that in any way. Jey Uso also got to pin Bryan in that same time period and that didn't go anywhere).

Thelone wrote: ↑Jan 23rd, '22, 19:30 Since we're talking about AEW yet again, would Ali really enjoy being... tokenized(?) because Tiny just can't shut the fuck up once in a while? I can understand why people like Nyla Rose and Sonny Kiss took the deal because it was either that or working shitty indies for pennies, but would it really be an upgrade to leave THE EVIL FED PRISON to become a tool for Tiny to show he pretends to care about ethnicities (only for him to most likely get bored by week 3 and send Ali in catering to be "rotated" on the Youtube shows until his time comes again)?

At the moment, though, WWE isn't letting him wrestle at all.
I agree that anyone going to AEW should worry about being rotated out. Miro went from an interesting character cutting awesome promos to be not existing, and we haven't gotten any sort of follow-up from arguably the biggest signing they've had in Daniel Bryan after his first real story finished, and if it can happen to those two, it can happen to anyone.
That being said, unfortunately, it seems like the best option at the moment, unless MLW is paying a lot more than I think they're paying. TNA is much too "sports entertainment" for what Ali seems to like doing.
ROH has left a big void in the market.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jan 24th, '22, 01:11At the moment, though, WWE isn't letting him wrestle at all.
I agree that anyone going to AEW should worry about being rotated out. Miro went from an interesting character cutting awesome promos to be not existing, and we haven't gotten any sort of follow-up from arguably the biggest signing they've had in Daniel Bryan after his first real story finished, and if it can happen to those two, it can happen to anyone.
That being said, unfortunately, it seems like the best option at the moment, unless MLW is paying a lot more than I think they're paying. TNA is much too "sports entertainment" for what Ali seems to like doing.
ROH has left a big void in the market.

It's not just a question of "being sent back to catering rotated out", but is there really anyone who left (or was let go from) WWE and joined AEW who's in a better place on the card now? Most of them are doing the same thing they were doing in the PRISON (Marauder Black being spoopy, Andrade and many others being... there, PAC slowly becoming Low Ki 2.0, Cole and most of the Undisputed Era Unstoppable Epoch) and they're all just proving that Vince was using them right all along. Hell, Cole is being exposed as a scrawny runt lately who was the least intimidating person in that mixed tag which included his fit-but-not-exactly-a-powerhouse girlfriend and a guy whose gimmick is that he doesn't give a shit. Anyway, I just don't see how it would end up diferrently with Ali was my point.

I can totally understand how someone would be upset and/or feel misused in WWE, but there is a point where you have to ask yourself "are they the problem, or am I?". When you hear someone like Chelsea Green whose """great""" ideas were "leech off a popular act (Rollins) and be eye candy (didn't she want to be a sexy nun because Seth was the messiah at the time?)" or "I dominate the women's division for an ice age (I think with Purrazzo in NXT)", I don't see misused but completely delusional. It's great to believe in yourself and all, but you have to know your limitations and either work on them or around them.

Thelone wrote: ↑Jan 24th, '22, 08:59

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jan 24th, '22, 01:11At the moment, though, WWE isn't letting him wrestle at all.
I agree that anyone going to AEW should worry about being rotated out. Miro went from an interesting character cutting awesome promos to be not existing, and we haven't gotten any sort of follow-up from arguably the biggest signing they've had in Daniel Bryan after his first real story finished, and if it can happen to those two, it can happen to anyone.
That being said, unfortunately, it seems like the best option at the moment, unless MLW is paying a lot more than I think they're paying. TNA is much too "sports entertainment" for what Ali seems to like doing.
ROH has left a big void in the market.

It's not just a question of "being sent back to catering rotated out", but is there really anyone who left (or was let go from) WWE and joined AEW who's in a better place on the card now? Most of them are doing the same thing they were doing in the PRISON (Marauder Black being spoopy, Andrade and many others being... there, PAC slowly becoming Low Ki 2.0, Cole and most of the Undisputed Era Unstoppable Epoch) and they're all just proving that Vince was using them right all along. Hell, Cole is being exposed as a scrawny runt lately who was the least intimidating person in that mixed tag which included his fit-but-not-exactly-a-powerhouse girlfriend and a guy whose gimmick is that he doesn't give a shit. Anyway, I just don't see how it would end up diferrently with Ali was my point.

You raise an interesting point that a lot of the people who have jumped really aren't in any better spots than they were (I'll argue that Black, Ruby, and Miro are, with Danielson, Fish, and Cole being a wash. Oh. And also technically Spears and Cody being better and Jericho and Matt Hardy being a wash, I guess, if we're going that far back), but I think there are some important caveats:
1. I'm going based solely on the idea that Triple H being kicked out of power took everyone by surprise, but if there were advanced rumblings of it, that certainly factors into Cole's decision.
2. The above applies even more so to Kyle, for whom the measure would have to be not where he is in AEW vs. where he was when he left NXT, but rather where he is in AEW vs. where he could reasonable be expected to be in this new NXT.
3. You're only looking at card positioning, and thus ignoring happiness, whether via creative freedom (which I think is hwere Ali lands) or via Tony possibly paying them more than WWE was.

Thelone wrote: ↑Jan 24th, '22, 08:59 I can totally understand how someone would be upset and/or feel misused in WWE, but there is a point where you have to ask yourself "are they the problem, or am I?". When you hear someone like Chelsea Green whose """great""" ideas were "leech off a popular act (Rollins) and be eye candy (didn't she want to be a sexy nun because Seth was the messiah at the time?)" or "I dominate the women's division for an ice age (I think with Purrazzo in NXT)", I don't see misused but completely delusional. It's great to believe in yourself and all, but you have to know your limitations and either work on them or around them.

Hadn't heard about the Chelsea thing. It's bad, but my guess is that it was her pitching something she thought would appeal to Vince in order to get herself permanently on the main roster (like Paul Burchill pitching the pirate gimmick) rather than something she thought was a great idea in and of itself.

As for Purrazzo dominating the women's division, that sounds like exactly what would happen in my fantasy world where the main events are a mix of Danielson, Gresham, Gulak, Thatcher, WALTER, Gargano, Roddy, Kyle, Miro, Alexander James, A-Kid, Bobby Gunns, and Zack Sabre Jr. wrestling each other every week (with Adam Cole, Ilja Dragunov, Keith Lee, Kevin OwensJon Moxley, Jordan Devlin, and maybe Kenny Omega and Jay Lethal throw in for some diversity of style and body-type). Can Deonna feud with Killer Kelly, Shayna Baszler, Millie McKenzie, and Leyla Hirsch all the time (with Meiko, Jinny, Becky Lynch, Tony Storm, Io Shirai, and Bianca Belair thrown in for the aforementioned diversity)? And I'm sure I'll find some way to work Alexa Bliss and Kane in eventually. I'll chalk this one up to talent having a good idea.

cero2k wrote: ↑Jan 22nd, '22, 14:58

XIV wrote: ↑Jan 21st, '22, 13:10 They’ve dropped the ball on Ali several times now, so it’s 100% fair that he asked for his release. Particularly if the current senile old vince presented some inappropriate or whack direction with his booking.

But they’ll probably go for the whole “if you want to leave, you’ll have to breach contract” route, see if that tactic works in the current climate.

what gets me is that not releasing someone must mean that they realize he has value and could be an asset to AEW, yet knowing he has value doesn't translate to using that value

As Jim Cornette says of Vince McMahon: "The only thing worse than Vince seeing nothing in you, is Vince seeing something in you". Look at the backstage vignettes Austin Theory is having to be involved in with a mumbling incoherent Vince.

I'm sure Vince probably thinks that when we need to do a show in x region or country, wrestler X will be useful. This is often how current Vince uses wrestlers with foreign heritage, just look at previous use of Babatunde, Mahal etc. instead of just making legit stars who are universally loved.

Thelone wrote: ↑Jan 23rd, '22, 19:30 I know it's easy and "cool" to dunk on Vince because "he's a senile old man who lost his mind years ago" or whatever, but maybe he's actually seeing something in Ali and trying to work out whatever his issues might be. Like, wasn't Ali supposed to be in Kingston's place a few years ago and won the belt from Bryan at WM before he got injured? Also maybe that's just me, but I'm not sure if I'd be relieved or feeling like shit if I went to my boss because "it's not working out" or something and (s)he immediately accepted my resignation without trying to do a thing to change my mind.

Since we're talking about AEW yet again, would Ali really enjoy being... tokenized(?) because Tiny just can't shut the fuck up once in a while? I can understand why people like Nyla Rose and Sonny Kiss took the deal because it was either that or working shitty indies for pennies, but would it really be an upgrade to leave THE EVIL FED PRISON to become a tool for Tiny to show he pretends to care about ethnicities (only for him to most likely get bored by week 3 and send Ali in catering to be "rotated" on the Youtube shows until his time comes again)?

you got it completely backwards. People have been shitting on Vince for 30 years, at this point his greedy racist ass warrants it, it's not the 'cool' thing. Shitting on TK and NJPW are the 'cool' thing

1. I'm going based solely on the idea that Triple H being kicked out of power took everyone by surprise, but if there were advanced rumblings of it, that certainly factors into Cole's decision.

I don't think Trips lost power as much as he got reprimanded for completely missing the point of NXT in the first place. When you look at it, Hunter's version of NXT is the OG AEW with the (step)son of a billionnaire being able to buy whatever he wants thanks to almost unlimited funds until Daddy Vince had enough of getting broken down/bland indy guys with limited shelf life and paying countless people in their mid/late 30s to stay in "developmental".

As for Cole, I always thought he was a bit overrated, but even I don't remember him being this small in ROH. The fact that I can totally buy Vince only coming up with a manager role for him on the main roster is pretty damn bad.

2. The above applies even more so to Kyle, for whom the measure would have to be not where he is in AEW vs. where he was when he left NXT, but rather where he is in AEW vs. where he could reasonable be expected to be in this new NXT.

O'Reilly is just going to be in the same spot he's always been : a tag guy. It's been his ceiling in ROH, NXT and will be in AEW as well. No amount of "creative freedom" is going to change the fact that he has the charisma of a wet towel.

3. You're only looking at card positioning, and thus ignoring happiness, whether via creative freedom (which I think is hwere Ali lands) or via Tony possibly paying them more than WWE was.

Do you really believe in this creative freedom crap? Yes, you can have a "more realistic" promo once in a while, between the rambling messes of Cody Rhodes and the usual shit with more swearing and middle fingers because it's "kewl and edgy". And that's when they actually let you talk, not reduce you to a catchphrase or just be a silent NPC in the background.

I'd be really curious to know how a lot of the guys and girls in AEW truly feels about their run so far. Most of the first batch of Totally-Not-Released people won't say much because they know they got lucky in the first place, but guys like Miro, PAC, Brian Cage, FTR, Andrade can't be that happy about how they've been used.

Hadn't heard about the Chelsea thing. It's bad, but my guess is that it was her pitching something she thought would appeal to Vince in order to get herself permanently on the main roster (like Paul Burchill pitching the pirate gimmick) rather than something she thought was a great idea in and of itself.

She's just an example. I think Saint Brodie pitched some serial killer inspired character to Vince as well, Peyton Royce to be broken up from Kay for a solo run only to mention that "she's boring" to EVIL Vince afterwards, and I'm sure you can find even more brilliant ideas from those previously shackled prisoners.

As for Purrazzo dominating the women's division, that sounds like exactly what would happen in my fantasy world where the main events are a mix of Danielson, Gresham, Gulak, Thatcher, WALTER, Gargano, Roddy, Kyle, Miro, Alexander James, A-Kid, Bobby Gunns, and Zack Sabre Jr. wrestling each other every week (with Adam Cole, Ilja Dragunov, Keith Lee, Kevin OwensJon Moxley, Jordan Devlin, and maybe Kenny Omega and Jay Lethal throw in for some diversity of style and body-type). Can Deonna feud with Killer Kelly, Shayna Baszler, Millie McKenzie, and Leyla Hirsch all the time (with Meiko, Jinny, Becky Lynch, Tony Storm, Io Shirai, and Bianca Belair thrown in for the aforementioned diversity)? And I'm sure I'll find some way to work Alexa Bliss and Kane in eventually. I'll chalk this one up to talent having a good idea.

That's... something alright.

cero2k wrote: ↑Jan 24th, '22, 13:48you got it completely backwards. People have been shitting on Vince for 30 years, at this point his greedy racist ass warrants it, it's not the 'cool' thing. Shitting on TK and NJPW are the 'cool' thing

Tiny deserves to be shat on for the way he handles any kind of criticism and because his idea of inclusivity is superficial at best. To this day, I remember the DoN pre-show in 2019 where the announcers said like four or five times that "AEW is for everyone" while showing that legless guy I forgot the name of, Sonny Kiss, and Aubrey the overacting referee among others and thought to myself that they signed/brought those people to fill some imaginary quota, not because they're any good, and to brag about how inclusive they are as a result.

Thelone wrote: ↑Jan 24th, '22, 16:27

1. I'm going based solely on the idea that Triple H being kicked out of power took everyone by surprise, but if there were advanced rumblings of it, that certainly factors into Cole's decision.

I don't think Trips lost power as much as he got reprimanded for completely missing the point of NXT in the first place. When you look at it, Hunter's version of NXT is the OG AEW with the (step)son of a billionnaire being able to buy whatever he wants thanks to almost unlimited funds until Daddy Vince had enough of getting broken down/bland indy guys with limited shelf life and paying countless people in their mid/late 30s to stay in "developmental".

As for Cole, I always thought he was a bit overrated, but even I don't remember him being this small in ROH. The fact that I can totally buy Vince only coming up with a manager role for him on the main roster is pretty damn bad.

The reasons for Hunter having control of NXT taken away from him are irrelevant to this discussion. What matters is that if the wrestlers knew it was coming and what a probable new direction would be, it would certainly affect their decisions, as the position they were in in NXT would have been much lower in a few months.

Is Cole short? Yes. But that's not an issue anymore for the majority of fans (especially when you have Cole's charisma). Rey Mysterio is short and got over. Daniel Bryan was short and got over. Why can't Adam Cole?
Guys were only getting paid to "stay in developmental" because they weren't being called up. The issue lies with Vince being too stuck in the past to even try to make anything of the talent he was handed.
Hell, forget about Cole and look at someone like Toni Storm. She's thin and blonde with big boobs. Everything Vince and KD want in a woman. She's got great charisma and presence. She's only 26 now. When they signed her she was 22-23. They brought her up to the main roster, and they did NOTHING with her.
Garza and Carrillo. Young dudes, good-looking... and Vince has made them goofs. Look at freakin' Cesaro! It doesn't matter who you put in front of Vince. His mentality has become to look for any flaw he can and declare that flaw to be disqualifying rather than doing what a good booker does and hide the weaknesses and accentuate the positives.

Thelone wrote: ↑Jan 24th, '22, 16:27

2. The above applies even more so to Kyle, for whom the measure would have to be not where he is in AEW vs. where he was when he left NXT, but rather where he is in AEW vs. where he could reasonable be expected to be in this new NXT.

O'Reilly is just going to be in the same spot he's always been : a tag guy. It's been his ceiling in ROH, NXT and will be in AEW as well. No amount of "creative freedom" is going to change the fact that he has the charisma of a wet towel.

But my point is that with the way NXT 2.0 was going, he wouldn't have been given the chance to even be that.

Thelone wrote: ↑Jan 24th, '22, 16:27

3. You're only looking at card positioning, and thus ignoring happiness, whether via creative freedom (which I think is hwere Ali lands) or via Tony possibly paying them more than WWE was.

Do you really believe in this creative freedom crap? Yes, you can have a "more realistic" promo once in a while, between the rambling messes of Cody Rhodes and the usual shit with more swearing and middle fingers because it's "kewl and edgy". And that's when they actually let you talk, not reduce you to a catchphrase or just be a silent NPC in the background.

I'd be really curious to know how a lot of the guys and girls in AEW truly feels about their run so far. Most of the first batch of Totally-Not-Released people won't say much because they know they got lucky in the first place, but guys like Miro, PAC, Brian Cage, FTR, Andrade can't be that happy about how they've been used.

Yes, I do believe it. My guess is that Tony Khan is letting people have a lot more input. I'm certain that, say Aleister Black and Pac are having a lot more influence over their videos than they would have had the same angle been done in WWE. And while all of the guys you've mentioned almost certainly aren't thrilled with how they have been used, the fact is that even if they're just being used on Dark and not on TV, they're stilling getting to go out there and do the gimmick they (I assume) want, and cut the promos they want.

Thelone wrote: ↑Jan 24th, '22, 16:27

Hadn't heard about the Chelsea thing. It's bad, but my guess is that it was her pitching something she thought would appeal to Vince in order to get herself permanently on the main roster (like Paul Burchill pitching the pirate gimmick) rather than something she thought was a great idea in and of itself.

She's just an example. I think Saint Brodie pitched some serial killer inspired character to Vince as well, Peyton Royce to be broken up from Kay for a solo run only to mention that "she's boring" to EVIL Vince afterwards, and I'm sure you can find even more brilliant ideas from those previously shackled prisoners.

I'm not saying that these people all have good ideas on their own. I think AEW has proven that just because you're a good worker or a good promo doesn't mean you'll make a good booker or promoter. Part of the booker's job is filtering out the bad suggestions and telling people "no."

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jan 24th, '22, 17:36The reasons for Hunter having control of NXT taken away from him are irrelevant to this discussion. What matters is that if the wrestlers knew it was coming and what a probable new direction would be, it would certainly affect their decisions, as the position they were in in NXT would have been much lower in a few months.

Fair enough, but I'll just say this then : Hunter failed to make his version of NXT a viable developmental ground, then a viable competitor to AEW/third brand, so he was (allegedly) relieved of his duties like any random failing executive would. Or he could just be taking some time off after his heart attack or whatever ailment he got hit by.

Is Cole short? Yes. But that's not an issue anymore for the majority of fans (especially when you have Cole's charisma). Rey Mysterio is short and got over. Daniel Bryan was short and got over. Why can't Adam Cole?
Guys were only getting paid to "stay in developmental" because they weren't being called up. The issue lies with Vince being too stuck in the past to even try to make anything of the talent he was handed.
Hell, forget about Cole and look at someone like Toni Storm. She's thin and blonde with big boobs. Everything Vince and KD want in a woman. She's got great charisma and presence. She's only 26 now. When they signed her she was 22-23. They brought her up to the main roster, and they did NOTHING with her.
Garza and Carrillo. Young dudes, good-looking... and Vince has made them goofs. Look at freakin' Cesaro! It doesn't matter who you put in front of Vince. His mentality has become to look for any flaw he can and declare that flaw to be disqualifying rather than doing what a good booker does and hide the weaknesses and accentuate the positives.

Cole isn't just short at this point, he looks like ha barely goes to the gym anymore (unlike Rey and Bryan). When fucking ORANGE CASSIDY and YOUR OWN GIRLFRIEND look more imposing than you, it might be time to get off your precious Twitch once in a while and do some curls or something. Even the dubbalos have noticed how small Cole is today, that's how bad he looks.

I'll give you Storm (not sure "thin" is how I'd describe her, but she did trim down for the main roster) and Garza to a lesser extent, but Carrillo is a plank of wood and Cesaro just can't cut a big main event promo. Those are some pretty big weaknesses to hide, especially if you wanna push them higher than the midcard.

But my point is that with the way NXT 2.0 was going, he wouldn't have been given the chance to even be that.

Probably, but he was never going to be anything in WWE anyway.

Yes, I do believe it. My guess is that Tony Khan is letting people have a lot more input. I'm certain that, say Aleister Black and Pac are having a lot more influence over their videos than they would have had the same angle been done in WWE. And while all of the guys you've mentioned almost certainly aren't thrilled with how they have been used, the fact is that even if they're just being used on Dark and not on TV, they're stilling getting to go out there and do the gimmick they (I assume) want, and cut the promos they want.

I just feel like "creative freedom" is another AEW-ism like the Forbidden Door that will end up meaning nothing. I guess it's nice if MelBrooks Black and "Mostly absent and pointless" PAC can be a bit creative with whatever they're doing, but it's still nothing special and isn't setting the world on fire.

I'm not saying that these people all have good ideas on their own. I think AEW has proven that just because you're a good worker or a good promo doesn't mean you'll make a good booker or promoter. Part of the booker's job is filtering out the bad suggestions and telling people "no."

And Tiny... really sucks at this, which is why you still have the Dark Order around, Cody blathering about twenty different topics in his latest promo, people feuding over dumb shit like arcade cabinets/who has the better ass or slicing each other for a nothing undercard feud, repeating angles/spots multiple times (sometimes even on the same show), people swearing left and right like 8yo's, awful """comedy""", and I'll stop there.

Thelone wrote: ↑Jan 25th, '22, 14:58
I'll give you Storm (not sure "thin" is how I'd describe her, but she did trim down for the main roster) and Garza to a lesser extent, but Carrillo is a plank of wood and Cesaro just can't cut a big main event promo. Those are some pretty big weaknesses to hide, especially if you wanna push them higher than the midcard.

I thought Carrillo was fine in the promo department, and not being able to cut a main event promos is the easiest weakness to hide. Get a manager. They've had the likes of Paul Heyman, Stokely Hathaway, and Zelina Vega running around their promotion.

Thelone wrote: ↑Jan 25th, '22, 14:58

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jan 24th, '22, 17:36
Yes, I do believe it. My guess is that Tony Khan is letting people have a lot more input. I'm certain that, say Aleister Black and Pac are having a lot more influence over their videos than they would have had the same angle been done in WWE. And while all of the guys you've mentioned almost certainly aren't thrilled with how they have been used, the fact is that even if they're just being used on Dark and not on TV, they're stilling getting to go out there and do the gimmick they (I assume) want, and cut the promos they want.

I just feel like "creative freedom" is another AEW-ism like the Forbidden Door that will end up meaning nothing. I guess it's nice if MelBrooks Black and "Mostly absent and pointless" PAC can be a bit creative with whatever they're doing, but it's still nothing special and isn't setting the world on fire.

Correct. But they're happier doing this than they would have been doing whatever silliness WWE would have had then doing, and it's ridiculous to think that they wouldn't factor that into their calculus.

Thelone wrote: ↑Jan 25th, '22, 14:58

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jan 24th, '22, 17:36I'm not saying that these people all have good ideas on their own. I think AEW has proven that just because you're a good worker or a good promo doesn't mean you'll make a good booker or promoter. Part of the booker's job is filtering out the bad suggestions and telling people "no."

And Tiny... really sucks at this, which is why you still have the Dark Order around, Cody blathering about twenty different topics in his latest promo, people feuding over dumb shit like arcade cabinets/who has the better ass or slicing each other for a nothing undercard feud, repeating angles/spots multiple times (sometimes even on the same show), people swearing left and right like 8yo's, awful """comedy""", and I'll stop there.

I agree.

Ha ! Cole is a vanilla midget.