Since the forum was down when a bunch of news came out, I figured this would be a good way to do this.

Thoughts?

A week later, all the news out and about, and I'm still really suspicious that Khan straight up said a day earlier that he believed in the power of 'real life' problems and turning them into ratings.

No way it's a work... ams even if it was, would the money the future matches would draw really be worth sacricing Punk vs. MJF, the Trios Titles legitimacy, and Punk, Omega, and the Bucks' presence on TV at a time when they need ratings for a new TV deal?

In hindsight , Tony's comments clearly refers to MJF.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 13th, '22, 12:47 No way it's a work... ams even if it was, would the money the future matches would draw really be worth sacricing Punk vs. MJF, the Trios Titles legitimacy, and Punk, Omega, and the Bucks' presence on TV at a time when they need ratings for a new TV deal?

In hindsight , Tony's comments clearly refers to MJF.

Oh yeah, 100% not a work. Like also how Punk was out on his own talking about Cabana and was never actually asked about him. Just a weird series of coincidences.

cero2k wrote: ↑Sep 14th, '22, 21:21

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 13th, '22, 12:47 No way it's a work... ams even if it was, would the money the future matches would draw really be worth sacricing Punk vs. MJF, the Trios Titles legitimacy, and Punk, Omega, and the Bucks' presence on TV at a time when they need ratings for a new TV deal?

In hindsight , Tony's comments clearly refers to MJF.

Oh yeah, 100% not a work. Like also how Punk was out on his own talking about Cabana and was never actually asked about him. Just a weird series of coincidences.

Punk felt the need to vent to the press and about the press, and this was the first place he was going to have a bunch of them in one place (and yes, his answer when Bryan asked him why he didn't contact the outlets he thought were reporting false info about him was idiotic).

essentially with all this. It is not a work. I believe Tony has worked with MJF to make his shoot a worked shoot for sure, but this latest situation isn't. You don't make a bunch of people champions you know you're going to suspend days later.

My opinion is that Tony Khan needs Jim Ross. JR is someone who has been head of talent relations in the biggest wrestling company in the world, in the biggest boom period at a time with the biggest egos and he helped made it work.
If I was TK, I would be getting my chequebook out and saying to JR, step away from commentary, help me out for a year, train your successor in how to do this talent relations stuff and name your price for doing so and then maybe announce some PPV main events from time to time.

Punk has proven that he doesn't tolerate bullshit. Cody Rhodes walked away quietly and politically from the kids and their plaything but Punk is never going to do that and he became open. The wet wipe elite brigade started this with Adam Page's stupid comments and clearly their general leaking of stories surrounding Colt Cabana to news outlets.

Somebody needs to sit them down and figure this out, not to be friends, but to co-exist. Strip the Bucks and Omega of their EVP status because of their unprofessional behaviour. you cannot have EVPs busting into locker rooms and trying to fight people. Everybody should be fined some money.

Tony Khan needs to get a grip of his locker room because it stinks of bullshit and childish nonsense and for me, JR is your man.

XIV wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 04:36

My opinion is that Tony Khan needs Jim Ross. JR is someone who has been head of talent relations in the biggest wrestling company in the world, in the biggest boom period at a time with the biggest egos and he helped made it work.
If I was TK, I would be getting my chequebook out and saying to JR, step away from commentary, help me out for a year, train your successor in how to do this talent relations stuff and name your price for doing so and then maybe announce some PPV main events from time to time.

I don't think Ross is a good fit for the job. There are already people in the company who I'm sure won't listen to him because they think his views on wrestling are too old-fashioned, and even though that shouldn't affect the advice he gives in an HR job, that's not how human brains work, and there will be people who won't be open to anything he has to say about such things and will assume he's just out to get them.

Assuming they're willing to take the headache I think Jericho or Daniels would be a better fit (and I doubt Jericho would want the headache).

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 10:12

XIV wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 04:36

My opinion is that Tony Khan needs Jim Ross. JR is someone who has been head of talent relations in the biggest wrestling company in the world, in the biggest boom period at a time with the biggest egos and he helped made it work.
If I was TK, I would be getting my chequebook out and saying to JR, step away from commentary, help me out for a year, train your successor in how to do this talent relations stuff and name your price for doing so and then maybe announce some PPV main events from time to time.

I don't think Ross is a good fit for the job. There are already people in the company who I'm sure won't listen to him because they think his views on wrestling are too old-fashioned, and even though that shouldn't affect the advice he gives in an HR job, that's not how human brains work, and there will be people who won't be open to anything he has to say about such things and will assume he's just out to get them.

Assuming they're willing to take the headache I think Jericho or Daniels would be a better fit (and I doubt Jericho would want the headache).

Ross has the experience managing these situations, he wouldn't be required to talk wrestling to them, but rather finding solutions and finding ways to work with and around guys that have issues. If wrestlers aren't prepared to listen to JR, then the problem isn't with JR, it's with the wrestler.

Adam Page recently made some comments about not needing any guidance or advice anymore, which I think is fucking stupid attitude.

If I was a wrestler and Ricky Steamboat or Tully Blanchard was offering advice, I'd gratefully receive it. This isn't a generational thing, this is a respect and understanding thing, taking advice from people who have drawn more money and bigger houses than Adam Page ever will and he refuses it. Fucking idiot. Same goes for all the "Elite". If their attitude is that they couldn't take some HR advice from JR, then they're bad apples and need to be weeded out. They're supposed to be grown men in a working environment.

XIV wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 12:54

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 10:12

XIV wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 04:36

My opinion is that Tony Khan needs Jim Ross. JR is someone who has been head of talent relations in the biggest wrestling company in the world, in the biggest boom period at a time with the biggest egos and he helped made it work.
If I was TK, I would be getting my chequebook out and saying to JR, step away from commentary, help me out for a year, train your successor in how to do this talent relations stuff and name your price for doing so and then maybe announce some PPV main events from time to time.

I don't think Ross is a good fit for the job. There are already people in the company who I'm sure won't listen to him because they think his views on wrestling are too old-fashioned, and even though that shouldn't affect the advice he gives in an HR job, that's not how human brains work, and there will be people who won't be open to anything he has to say about such things and will assume he's just out to get them.

Assuming they're willing to take the headache I think Jericho or Daniels would be a better fit (and I doubt Jericho would want the headache).

Ross has the experience managing these situations, he wouldn't be required to talk wrestling to them, but rather finding solutions and finding ways to work with and around guys that have issues. If wrestlers aren't prepared to listen to JR, then the problem isn't with JR, it's with the wrestler.

Adam Page recently made some comments about not needing any guidance or advice anymore, which I think is fucking stupid attitude.

If I was a wrestler and Ricky Steamboat or Tully Blanchard was offering advice, I'd gratefully receive it. This isn't a generational thing, this is a respect and understanding thing, taking advice from people who have drawn more money and bigger houses than Adam Page ever will and he refuses it. Fucking idiot. Same goes for all the "Elite". If their attitude is that they couldn't take some HR advice from JR, then they're bad apples and need to be weeded out. They're supposed to be grown men in a working environment.

You're absolutely correct... but if you're Tony Khan and you can find someone who will cause less inherent friction/be more acceptable to most people than JR, wouldn’t you do that?

Why does it even need to be someone in wrestling?

Also, with the particular examples you gave, I'll agree with you about Steamboat, but Tully? He's something of a headcase, no?

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 13:06

XIV wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 12:54

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 10:12

I don't think Ross is a good fit for the job. There are already people in the company who I'm sure won't listen to him because they think his views on wrestling are too old-fashioned, and even though that shouldn't affect the advice he gives in an HR job, that's not how human brains work, and there will be people who won't be open to anything he has to say about such things and will assume he's just out to get them.

Assuming they're willing to take the headache I think Jericho or Daniels would be a better fit (and I doubt Jericho would want the headache).

Ross has the experience managing these situations, he wouldn't be required to talk wrestling to them, but rather finding solutions and finding ways to work with and around guys that have issues. If wrestlers aren't prepared to listen to JR, then the problem isn't with JR, it's with the wrestler.

Adam Page recently made some comments about not needing any guidance or advice anymore, which I think is fucking stupid attitude.

If I was a wrestler and Ricky Steamboat or Tully Blanchard was offering advice, I'd gratefully receive it. This isn't a generational thing, this is a respect and understanding thing, taking advice from people who have drawn more money and bigger houses than Adam Page ever will and he refuses it. Fucking idiot. Same goes for all the "Elite". If their attitude is that they couldn't take some HR advice from JR, then they're bad apples and need to be weeded out. They're supposed to be grown men in a working environment.

You're absolutely correct... but if you're Tony Khan and you can find someone who will cause less inherent friction/be more acceptable to most people than JR, wouldn’t you do that?

Why does it even need to be someone in wrestling?

Also, with the particular examples you gave, I'll agree with you about Steamboat, but Tully? He's something of a headcase, no?

Tully is a fucking head case, clearly that’s also hereditary, but he knows wrestling.

I just don’t think Daniels or anyone has the relative experience in that kind of role to do the job. It has to be an “outsider” who isn’t one of the boys and can be straight down the line.

XIV wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 14:55

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 13:06

XIV wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 12:54

Ross has the experience managing these situations, he wouldn't be required to talk wrestling to them, but rather finding solutions and finding ways to work with and around guys that have issues. If wrestlers aren't prepared to listen to JR, then the problem isn't with JR, it's with the wrestler.

Adam Page recently made some comments about not needing any guidance or advice anymore, which I think is fucking stupid attitude.

If I was a wrestler and Ricky Steamboat or Tully Blanchard was offering advice, I'd gratefully receive it. This isn't a generational thing, this is a respect and understanding thing, taking advice from people who have drawn more money and bigger houses than Adam Page ever will and he refuses it. Fucking idiot. Same goes for all the "Elite". If their attitude is that they couldn't take some HR advice from JR, then they're bad apples and need to be weeded out. They're supposed to be grown men in a working environment.

You're absolutely correct... but if you're Tony Khan and you can find someone who will cause less inherent friction/be more acceptable to most people than JR, wouldn’t you do that?

Why does it even need to be someone in wrestling?

Also, with the particular examples you gave, I'll agree with you about Steamboat, but Tully? He's something of a headcase, no?

Tully is a fucking head case, clearly that’s also hereditary, but he knows wrestling.

I just don’t think Daniels or anyone has the relative experience in that kind of role to do the job. It has to be an “outsider” who isn’t one of the boys and can be straight down the line.

I wouldn't take career advice from Tully.
He seems like the sort of person who would asvise you to do things to eat your opponent up instead of help the match.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 15:18

XIV wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 14:55

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 15th, '22, 13:06

You're absolutely correct... but if you're Tony Khan and you can find someone who will cause less inherent friction/be more acceptable to most people than JR, wouldn’t you do that?

Why does it even need to be someone in wrestling?

Also, with the particular examples you gave, I'll agree with you about Steamboat, but Tully? He's something of a headcase, no?

Tully is a fucking head case, clearly that’s also hereditary, but he knows wrestling.

I just don’t think Daniels or anyone has the relative experience in that kind of role to do the job. It has to be an “outsider” who isn’t one of the boys and can be straight down the line.

I wouldn't take career advice from Tully.
He seems like the sort of person who would asvise you to do things to eat your opponent up instead of help the match.

Very possible. But still. Doesn’t take away from the fact that Adam Page is clearly a stuck up little shit who has an inflated ego as to what he’s actually achieved.

I’ve been doing my job 8 years, Recieved national awards, medals and recognition, but there are still people who have done it longer to whom I will always take advice from, because they have more experience.

The more Adam Page talks, the less likeable he becomes. He somehow manages to come off as both a complete pushover/"just happy to be here" kind of guy and also entitled despite how little he has accomplished during his 14-year career so far.

Thelone wrote: ↑Sep 16th, '22, 09:52 The more Adam Page talks, the less likeable he becomes. He somehow manages to come off as both a complete pushover/"just happy to be here" kind of guy and also entitled despite how little he has accomplished during his 14-year career so far.

The same goes for all of The Elite...

The more stories that are coming out just go to show that love him or hate him, Jim Cornette has been right about the Bucks and Omega.

Dudes with inflated egos, bitchy little jealous attitudes and just manipulative little pricks who cry when shit doesn’t go their way.

XIV wrote: ↑Sep 16th, '22, 13:51The same goes for all of The Elite...

The more stories that are coming out just go to show that love him or hate him, Jim Cornette has been right about the Bucks and Omega.

I mean, I never thought any of the Elite guys were likeable (Cody included), but at least Page had the benefit of the doubt since we didn't know much about him up until pretty recently.

It is becoming crystal clear why Rhodes left since he was the only serious adult trying to do something constructive, and most likely quickly put on the side by the other Elite guys and Tiny himself, hence why we ended up with the Codyverse that barely had any relations with the rest of the show.

Dudes with inflated egos, bitchy little jealous attitudes and just manipulative little pricks who cry when shit doesn’t go their way.

Someone on Reddit put it best, basically saying that the Dub tried to sell people a bunch of lies like "sports presentation" and "pushing/signing wrestlers based on merits, not favouritism", only to end up like every promotion ever with cliques hogging the spotlight and leaving very little for everyone else. The only difference this time is that those clans are filled with thin-skinned people who can hardly take any criticism, so we end up with Punk blowing up a fuse on the totally-not-press conference, passive aggressive comments left and right by almost all of them, unfunny skits trying to act like it's over them for the Elite, and hide behind Uncle Dave who will poorly defend the Bucks to the death.

Thelone wrote: ↑Sep 16th, '22, 19:22

XIV wrote: ↑Sep 16th, '22, 13:51The same goes for all of The Elite...

The more stories that are coming out just go to show that love him or hate him, Jim Cornette has been right about the Bucks and Omega.

I mean, I never thought any of the Elite guys were likeable (Cody included), but at least Page had the benefit of the doubt since we didn't know much about him up until pretty recently.

It is becoming crystal clear why Rhodes left since he was the only serious adult trying to do something constructive, and most likely quickly put on the side by the other Elite guys and Tiny himself, hence why we ended up with the Codyverse that barely had any relations with the rest of the show.

Dudes with inflated egos, bitchy little jealous attitudes and just manipulative little pricks who cry when shit doesn’t go their way.

Someone on Reddit put it best, basically saying that the Dub tried to sell people a bunch of lies like "sports presentation" and "pushing/signing wrestlers based on merits, not favouritism", only to end up like every promotion ever with cliques hogging the spotlight and leaving very little for everyone else. The only difference this time is that those clans are filled with thin-skinned people who can hardly take any criticism, so we end up with Punk blowing up a fuse on the totally-not-press conference, passive aggressive comments left and right by almost all of them, unfunny skits trying to act like it's over them for the Elite, and hide behind Uncle Dave who will poorly defend the Bucks to the death.

Agree with all sentiments. But here’s the thing…
The difference in Cody and Punk is clear.

Cody is political, and chose to not put up with the idiotic grown up children, so he just picked up his ball and quietly went to the WWE with barely a word spoken.

Punk isn’t going to do that, and he doesn’t give a shit about their feelings so he made sure that his response was as public as their behind the back accusations.

But in both cases the Elite were jealous of guys who were taking things seriously, getting higher ratings then them and showing up all their friends for behind a bunch of trampoline gymnasts who think they’re the best thing ever.

Don’t forget that in recent months, the difference between a CM Punk or FTR segment and an Elite segment, is somewhere between 200,000-350,000 people. Out of your top audience of about 1.3 Million, between 1/5 and 1/4 are turning off when the Elite hit the screen, and that just burns them up inside and creates feelings of insecurity and jealousy and look how it manifests and ends.

XIV wrote: ↑Sep 17th, '22, 00:09Agree with all sentiments. But here’s the thing…
The difference in Cody and Punk is clear.

Cody is political, and chose to not put up with the idiotic grown up children, so he just picked up his ball and quietly went to the WWE with barely a word spoken.

Punk isn’t going to do that, and he doesn’t give a shit about their feelings so he made sure that his response was as public as their behind the back accusations.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think both Cody and Punk can be lumped together as two sides of the same coin. Once again, it's becoming pretty clear that Cody (and possibly Brandi) was the glue holding everything together and trying to keep whatever dirty laundry there might have been as private as possible. Pretty much as soon as he left, the grumblings grew louder and even Uncle Dave started to be more critical about the Dub.

Punk on the other hand did nothing to appease tensions and pretty much threw the whole damn coal mine on the fire instead. He got his fragile ego hurt because Page mentioned that old tweet about "supporting your fellow wrestlers" or whatever, "replied" to it months later in a random promo Page wasn't even a part of (and thus couldn't respond to), then it snowballed from there.

I guess you can say that Cody's method didn't really work because he fucked off to WWE, but at least AEW didn't look like it was a complete mess run by idiots. Punk's method might get rid of the Elite (and himself, but hey), but is a promotion run by Tiny with both an over-the-hill Jericho (who also has his own clique, let's not forget that) and Constantly Miserable Punk in his ears better off than with the Bucks and Omega?

But in both cases the Elite were jealous of guys who were taking things seriously, getting higher ratings then them and showing up all their friends for behind a bunch of trampoline gymnasts who think they’re the best thing ever.

Don’t forget that in recent months, the difference between a CM Punk or FTR segment and an Elite segment, is somewhere between 200,000-350,000 people. Out of your top audience of about 1.3 Million, between 1/5 and 1/4 are turning off when the Elite hit the screen, and that just burns them up inside and creates feelings of insecurity and jealousy and look how it manifests and ends.

I think it's a lot easier actually : the Elite has been losing its grasp on Khan since Punk came in and we have this shitty internal warfare as a result.

Thelone wrote: ↑Sep 18th, '22, 16:04

XIV wrote: ↑Sep 17th, '22, 00:09Agree with all sentiments. But here’s the thing…
The difference in Cody and Punk is clear.

Cody is political, and chose to not put up with the idiotic grown up children, so he just picked up his ball and quietly went to the WWE with barely a word spoken.

Punk isn’t going to do that, and he doesn’t give a shit about their feelings so he made sure that his response was as public as their behind the back accusations.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think both Cody and Punk can be lumped together as two sides of the same coin. Once again, it's becoming pretty clear that Cody (and possibly Brandi) was the glue holding everything together and trying to keep whatever dirty laundry there might have been as private as possible. Pretty much as soon as he left, the grumblings grew louder and even Uncle Dave started to be more critical about the Dub.

What is your sourcing for this? Everything I've heard said that Cody and Brandi were very divisive.

Thelone wrote: ↑Sep 18th, '22, 16:04 He got his fragile ego hurt because Page mentioned that old tweet about "supporting your fellow wrestlers" or whatever, "replied" to it months later in a random promo Page wasn't even a part of (and thus couldn't respond to), then it snowballed from there.

I seem to be the only one who remembers this, but Punk calling Page when Page wasn't there and making him look bad was also in response to Page doing that to Punk during their feud (and then accusing Punk of only being in it for the money).

Thelone wrote: ↑Sep 16th, '22, 19:22
It is becoming crystal clear why Rhodes left since he was the only serious adult trying to do something constructive, and most likely quickly put on the side by the other Elite guys and Tiny himself, hence why we ended up with the Codyverse that barely had any relations with the rest of the show.

I don't think this framing is quite fair. The Bucks and Omega are trying to do what they think is constructive, and it is what has worked for them in the past. The problem is that they don't understand that if you want that "second million" that Wade Keller always talks about, you can't just do kitschy comedy and then have Meltzer-rated ****1/2+ matches. They already have all of the people who are going to be into that.

Thelone wrote: ↑Sep 16th, '22, 19:22
Someone on Reddit put it best, basically saying that the Dub tried to sell people a bunch of lies like "sports presentation" and "pushing/signing wrestlers based on merits, not favouritism", only to end up like every promotion ever with cliques hogging the spotlight and leaving very little for everyone else. The only difference this time is that those clans are filled with thin-skinned people who can hardly take any criticism, so we end up with Punk blowing up a fuse on the totally-not-press conference, passive aggressive comments left and right by almost all of them, unfunny skits trying to act like it's over them for the Elite, and hide behind Uncle Dave who will poorly defend the Bucks to the death.

This. Even if the cliques weren't a problem, AEW is still a let-down if you're someone like me who really wanted the "sports-like presentation," for example. And I don't even think the cliques are the major problem (other than when people are fighting backstage or spreading rumors, of course). I do think that people have mostly been pushed on merit. As much as I hate it, Orange Cassidy and John Silver are over. Hook is getting pushed because for whatever strange reason, Hook got over. Jade Cargill's push is deserved because she has such major star potential, and even if she isn't improving in the ring as much as we'd like she's not actively stinking things any worse than any other pushed act in that division.

Yes, there are a hell of a lot of people who don't get pushed commiserate with their ability, but that's because the roster is too big, not because of favoritism.

The reason we don't get the promised "sports-like presentation" is because... well... I think Tony's an idiot and in his mind that meant "we'll keep records, and have rankings!," where as the rest of us heard that and actually expected those things to matter and be done in a logical manner.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Sep 20th, '22, 21:37
The reason we don't get the promised "sports-like presentation" is because... well... I think Tony's an idiot and in his mind that meant "we'll keep records, and have rankings!," where as the rest of us heard that and actually expected those things to matter and be done in a logical manner.

Wait, how does that make HIM the idiot, when it was the fans that were making their own assumptions and taking everything literal?