Will anyone break Dudleys/Team 3D's record?

Post by **ECWFlairfan** » Jul 28th, '11, 06:22

I'm curious, and unfortunately probably know the answer to this question:

Will any tag team break the Dudley Boys/Team 3D's record of major tag team championships?

8x ECW World
1x NWA World
2x IWGP World
8x WWE World
1x WWE tag
1x WCW World
2x TNA World

For a grand total of 23 World tag team championship reigns.

Will any tag team even come close? (Not debating teams who may be better, but will any get this kind of opportunity)

Post by **cero2k** » Jul 28th, '11, 09:25

The only team that i think have a chance are The Briescoes

Post by **Big Red Machine** » Jul 28th, '11, 10:25

It all depends what titles you are counting.

The Briscoes only have 9 from what I would consider "major" promotions (6 ROH, 2 CZW, 1 GHC Jr. Heavyweight)

But I really can't think of any other team that could come close. KoW have 5 (2 ROH, 2 CZW, one CHIKARA), but they are too good individually that their singles careers can (and will, IMO) get in the way.

Personally, the only titles I would count are the following: WWE, WWE World, TNA, ROH, WCW, ECW, AAA, CMLL, GHC, All Japan, New Japan, CZW, CHIKARA (EDIT: I realized that I forgot the AWA). The NWA belts I would only count when they were controlled by either WCW or TNA. Since then, they haven't meant much. PWG, IMO, isn't important enough to count yet.

Post by **cero2k** » Jul 28th, '11, 10:33

Big Red Machine wrote:
Personally, the only titles I would count are the following: WWE, WWE World, TNA, ROH, WCW, ECW, AAA, CMLL, GHC, All Japan, New Japan, CZW, CHIKARA. The NWA belts I would only count when they were controlled by either WCW or TNA. Since then, they haven't meant much. PWG, IMO, isn't important enough to count yet.

I think you're being a bit too generous with CHIKARA, are the Campeonatos en Pareja considered World Titles right now??

Post by **Big Red Machine** » Jul 28th, '11, 10:55

cero2k wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:
Personally, the only titles I would count are the following: WWE, WWE World, TNA, ROH, WCW, ECW, AAA, CMLL, GHC, All Japan, New Japan, CZW, CHIKARA. The NWA belts I would only count when they were controlled by either WCW or TNA. Since then, they haven't meant much. PWG, IMO, isn't important enough to count yet.
I think you're being a bit too generous with CHIKARA, are the Campeonatos en Pareja considered World Titles right now??

"World" is a weird term. Are we talking about the claim of being a "World" title due to where it is defended, or about importance?

The CHIKARA Campeonatos de Parejas have been defended anywhere outside of the US (so they can't claim "world" status that way (not that that way matters much, IMO), but in terms of importance: CHIKARA is a promotion based around tag team wrestling (hell, it will have take 9 and a half years to have their first true singles titles- that, in and of itself, raises the prestige of the Campeonatos de Parejas, IMO) with a history of putting on GREAT, intricate angles, has rules that make all of its title matches big deals, and is known for bringing in an amazing array of outside talent (Dragon Gate guys, DDT guys, guys from indies around the US and Canada), including getting legends who don't travel overseas that often to come in (Manami Toyota, Johnny Saint, Johnny Kidd, Daisuke Sekimoto, Jinsei Sinzaki, Dick Togo, The Great Sasuke). Are they as nationally known as ROH or CZW? No. But that is because their style, more than any other in wrestling, is not for everyone. But I don't think that takes away from the fact that is a HUGE deal to be the CHIKARA Campeonatos de Parejas.

Post by **ECWFlairfan** » Jul 28th, '11, 20:30

Big Red Machine wrote:The NWA belts I would only count when they were controlled by either WCW or TNA. Since then, they haven't meant much.

NWA should count based on their history & unlike the rest of the tag team championships, are actually defended World-wide... my same personal argument why the NWA World championship is the only true World championship... the NWA itself isn't a single promotion but a group of promotions...from all over the world...

Post by **Big Red Machine** » Jul 28th, '11, 21:57

ECWFlairfan wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:The NWA belts I would only count when they were controlled by either WCW or TNA. Since then, they haven't meant much.
NWA should count based on their history & unlike the rest of the tag team championships, are actually defended World-wide... my same personal argument why the NWA World championship is the only true World championship... the NWA itself isn't a single promotion but a group of promotions...from all over the world...

The NWA World Tag Team Titles have almost no history. They were created in 1992 (when the NWA was pretty much dead). The only time they have ever been prominent was when they were controlled by either TNA or WCW.

And your assertion that the NWA belts are defended overseas more than other belts is just plain wrong. Whenever WWE or TNA leave the country (and especially when they go overseas), they always have their titles defended. Smaller companies, like ROH, PWG, and CZW also always make sure that the few times they are able to go overseas as a company, they have their belts defended. Also, a lot of times indy champs defend their belts when they tour overseas, even if it isn't a tour specifically related to that company. For example, Davey Richards just recently defended the ROH World Title in Spain. And nowadays, whoever the hell is running the NWA probably has a lot less money than ROH or CZW or PWG, so they probably don't get their belts defended overseas as often.

As for your argument about the fact that the NWA is a group of promotions making the NWA World Title the only true World Title:

1. Other groups exist. Take WWE for example. It is not only WWE, but also FCW (and has included various others over the years, like HWA, OVW, MCW, and DSW. Hell, at one time, WWE had three different developmental territories going). Another great example of this the World Wrestling Network (the fancy name for the former grouping of ROH, FIP, & SHIMMER).

2. The only reason that an "NWA World Champion" exists was so promoters could make more money by bringing him in as a special attraction. It is not (nowadays, and rarely was back then)a matter of all of the promotions in question agreeing that "this is the top guy and/or he should be the one to have the belt." It is just a moneymaking tactic. Nowadays, I doubt that having the NWA World Title defended on a show helps it draw any more than any other title wood, and most of the time, the title is given to a guy off of reputation in the hopes that he will draw, and thus increase the prestige of the belt (as was the case with Pearce, Cabana, Blue Demon Jr., and Sheik- you know... every champion since they took the belts away from TNA).

3. Who cares if it is a group of different promotions recognizing someone was the top guy... those promotions are tiny little things with no exposure at all. I am certain that there are more wrestling fans out there who know who the Champion is in PWG than in the NWA (never mind a bigger indy like ROH... to say that person is more of a world champion than those world champs [not even going to bring TNA or WWE into the argument]) is utterly ridiculous.

Post by **cero2k** » Jul 28th, '11, 22:16

I''m not sure exactly what is the current deal with NWA, but they're constantly defending the title down in Mexico. But i'm not sure if it's the same title that gets defended here in the US, the one that Sheik has.

as for WWE, i wouldn't count defending the title against your own people as "defending overseas" that term should be when you defend it against someone that is not in your same promotion.

Post by **Big Red Machine** » Jul 28th, '11, 22:51

cero2k wrote:I''m not sure exactly what is the current deal with NWA, but they're constantly defending the title down in Mexico. But i'm not sure if it's the same title that gets defended here in the US, the one that Sheik has.

as for WWE, i wouldn't count defending the title against your own people as "defending overseas" that term should be when you defend it against someone that is not in your same promotion.

Why not? It is a world title because of world-wide exposure (and yes, this is the formula that most promotions use). Who cares who you defended it against?

Post by **cero2k** » Jul 28th, '11, 23:04

Big Red Machine wrote:
Why not? It is a world title because of world-wide exposure (and yes, this is the formula that most promotions use). Who cares who you defended it against?

definitely, that title is a world title for the exposure. I'm just saying that going over seas and defending the title against your own people in the company shouldn't be considered as such ans such title was defended around the world. I don't see it as much of a deal for a company to go to another country, do a house show and book a title match. At least TNA or ROH defend against locals.

Post by **ECWFlairfan** » Jul 29th, '11, 06:14

cero2k wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:
Why not? It is a world title because of world-wide exposure (and yes, this is the formula that most promotions use). Who cares who you defended it against?
definitely, that title is a world title for the exposure. I'm just saying that going over seas and defending the title against your own people in the company shouldn't be considered as such ans such title was defended around the world. I don't see it as much of a deal for a company to go to another country, do a house show and book a title match. At least TNA or ROH defend against locals.

And the NWA does as well... besides, the NWA tag team title history goes back to at least the 70s when great team such as the Rock n Roll Express, Road Warriors, Midnight Express, Koloffs, Anderson/Blanchard, Flair/Valentine and Ole & Arn Anderson (among others) were champions...

Post by **Big Red Machine** » Jul 29th, '11, 14:06

ECWFlairfan wrote:
cero2k wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:
Why not? It is a world title because of world-wide exposure (and yes, this is the formula that most promotions use). Who cares who you defended it against?
definitely, that title is a world title for the exposure. I'm just saying that going over seas and defending the title against your own people in the company shouldn't be considered as such ans such title was defended around the world. I don't see it as much of a deal for a company to go to another country, do a house show and book a title match. At least TNA or ROH defend against locals.
And the NWA does as well... besides, the NWA tag team title history goes back to at least the 70s when great team such as the Rock n Roll Express, Road Warriors, Midnight Express, Koloffs, Anderson/Blanchard, Flair/Valentine and Ole & Arn Anderson (among others) were champions...

Those are the mid-Atlantic belts. Which became the WCW belts. Before 1992, there were a whole bunch of NWA promotions claiming that they had the NWA World Tag Team Titles. The only official NWA World Tag Team Titles were created in 1992.

Post by **badnewzxl** » Jul 29th, '11, 15:37

Big Red Machine wrote:
Those are the mid-Atlantic belts. Which became the WCW belts. Before 1992, there were a whole bunch of NWA promotions claiming that they had the NWA World Tag Team Titles. The only official NWA World Tag Team Titles were created in 1992.

No; when Mid-Atlantic named their Tag champs it became official that THOSE champs were the World Tag Champs bc ALL the other World titles were defended in that territory (the World TV title, the US HVY title, and the NWA World title). If you're gonna count WCW and TNA, you have to count JCP; they did the same exact things for the "top" titles that WCW & TNA did. The only difference is JCP never broke away from the NWA like the other two did. Mid Atlantic at the time got more exposure (MUCH more) than any other promotion in America besides WWF; so what makes them any different from WCW & TNA, both of whom were only "territories" of the NWA until they broke away?

Post by **Big Red Machine** » Jul 29th, '11, 16:14

badnewzxl wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:
Those are the mid-Atlantic belts. Which became the WCW belts. Before 1992, there were a whole bunch of NWA promotions claiming that they had the NWA World Tag Team Titles. The only official NWA World Tag Team Titles were created in 1992.
No; when Mid-Atlantic named their Tag champs it became official that THOSE champs were the World Tag Champs bc ALL the other World titles were defended in that territory (the World TV title, the US HVY title, and the NWA World title). If you're gonna count WCW and TNA, you have to count JCP; they did the same exact things for the "top" titles that WCW & TNA did. The only difference is JCP never broke away from the NWA like the other two did. Mid Atlantic at the time got more exposure (MUCH more) than any other promotion in America besides WWF; so what makes them any different from WCW & TNA, both of whom were only "territories" of the NWA until they broke away?

The NWA didn't recognize them as such until the 80's. And the reason for that was in 82 (the last time any NWA Member besides JCP promoted their own World Tag Team Titles, the only NWA members left were JCP, Georgia, Tunney, Geigel's territory, Southeast, NWA Pacific Northwest, and World Class... and Georgia and Tunney were both bought by Vince in 84, making it a grand total of five territories (and by 86, World Class broke off and Geigel sold to Crockett, making it three). What makes it different? Nothing. My point is about exposure. I am willing to say that the JCP belts were World Tag Team Titles, but that had to do with exposure more than the NWA name, or the fact that it was recognized as such by other promotions.

The NWA wouldn't have recognized them as such if there weren't so few promotions left.

Post by **badnewzxl** » Jul 29th, '11, 16:35

Big Red Machine wrote:
badnewzxl wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:
Those are the mid-Atlantic belts. Which became the WCW belts. Before 1992, there were a whole bunch of NWA promotions claiming that they had the NWA World Tag Team Titles. The only official NWA World Tag Team Titles were created in 1992.
No; when Mid-Atlantic named their Tag champs it became official that THOSE champs were the World Tag Champs bc ALL the other World titles were defended in that territory (the World TV title, the US HVY title, and the NWA World title). If you're gonna count WCW and TNA, you have to count JCP; they did the same exact things for the "top" titles that WCW & TNA did. The only difference is JCP never broke away from the NWA like the other two did. Mid Atlantic at the time got more exposure (MUCH more) than any other promotion in America besides WWF; so what makes them any different from WCW & TNA, both of whom were only "territories" of the NWA until they broke away?
The NWA didn't recognize them as such until the 80's. And the reason for that was in 82 (the last time any NWA Member besides JCP promoted their own World Tag Team Titles, the only NWA members left were JCP, Georgia, Tunney, Geigel's territory, Southeast, NWA Pacific Northwest, and World Class... and Georgia and Tunney were both bought by Vince in 84, making it a grand total of five territories (and by 86, World Class broke off and Geigel sold to Crockett, making it three). What makes it different? Nothing. My point is about exposure. I am willing to say that the JCP belts were World Tag Team Titles, but that had to do with exposure more than the NWA name, or the fact that it was recognized as such by other promotions.

The NWA wouldn't have recognized them as such if there weren't so few promotions left.

yeah; I just mean the same arguments can be made about both TNA and WCW. I figured if you're gonna count them, you should count JCP. Exposure is the biggest part of what makes a title a world title in my book. Whether your tv exposure increases or you increase it by defending it on foreign soil, you're still advancing your reach. JCP ran Mid-Atlantic, but they didn't they have an agreement with Georgia Championship Wrestling as well? Isn't that how they got their tv show (until Vince bought it)? That in and of itself shows that JCP had a reach over the entire NWA. And they had cable tv; what other territory had that?

Post by **ECWFlairfan** » Jul 30th, '11, 21:25

Good points about the history of the NWA... but back on topic:

Anyone think any tag team will match (or surpass) what the Dudley Boys have accomplished? Unfortunately I don't... the closest is Haas & Benjamin right now because they have held top tag titles in both the WWE & ROH...

Post by **Robert Randall** » Jul 30th, '11, 21:57

ECWFlairfan wrote:Good points about the history of the NWA... but back on topic:

Anyone think any tag team will match (or surpass) what the Dudley Boys have accomplished? Unfortunately I don't... the closest is Haas & Benjamin right now because they have held top tag titles in both the WWE & ROH...

but have they held more tag titles combined than the Briscoes or KoW?

Post by **cero2k** » Jul 30th, '11, 22:29

ECWFlairfan wrote:Good points about the history of the NWA... but back on topic:

Anyone think any tag team will match (or surpass) what the Dudley Boys have accomplished? Unfortunately I don't... the closest is Haas & Benjamin right now because they have held top tag titles in both the WWE & ROH...

the point here is that both Briscoes and KoW already dominated the indies and would only require to go international and mainstream. While the WGTT now need to visit all indies and international. what is more likely to happen??

Post by **ECWFlairfan** » Jul 31st, '11, 11:18

cero2k wrote:
ECWFlairfan wrote:Good points about the history of the NWA... but back on topic:

Anyone think any tag team will match (or surpass) what the Dudley Boys have accomplished? Unfortunately I don't... the closest is Haas & Benjamin right now because they have held top tag titles in both the WWE & ROH...
the point here is that both Briscoes and KoW already dominated the indies and would only require to go international and mainstream. While the WGTT now need to visit all indies and international. what is more likely to happen??

which is my point... neither TNA nor WWE want to spend time & $ on developing great tag team wrestling... otherwise I would say Beer Money could travel to ROH & WWE & then go to Japan, Mexico, & then maybe even Europe... but if WWE ever signed them they'd break them up & likely push Robert Roode to secondary titles thereby killing the team...

WGTT needs to visit the indies & international, but at some point they'd need TNA to achieve Dudleys/Team 3D status...

Post by **Robert Randall** » Jul 31st, '11, 11:24

ECWFlairfan wrote:
cero2k wrote:
ECWFlairfan wrote:Good points about the history of the NWA... but back on topic:

Anyone think any tag team will match (or surpass) what the Dudley Boys have accomplished? Unfortunately I don't... the closest is Haas & Benjamin right now because they have held top tag titles in both the WWE & ROH...
the point here is that both Briscoes and KoW already dominated the indies and would only require to go international and mainstream. While the WGTT now need to visit all indies and international. what is more likely to happen??
which is my point... neither TNA nor WWE want to spend time & $ on developing great tag team wrestling... otherwise I would say Beer Money could travel to ROH & WWE & then go to Japan, Mexico, & then maybe even Europe... but if WWE ever signed them they'd break them up & likely push Robert Roode to secondary titles thereby killing the team...

WGTT needs to visit the indies & international, but at some point they'd need TNA to achieve Dudleys/Team 3D status...

You ignored his point. Who is more likely to finish their quest first, WGTT, KoW, or Briscoes?

Will anyone break Dudleys/Team 3D's record?

Will anyone break Dudleys/Team 3D's record?

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