2 Cents: How will John Cena use his MITB Contract?

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Re: 2 Cents: How will John Cena use his MITB Contract?

Post by cero2k » Jul 20th, '12, 13:05

badnewzxl wrote:
And I agree with BRM here; putting Punk in a feud with someone like the Rock or Brock Lesnar will be his test to see if he can get over on their level. Right now, WWE needs to test those grounds so they can elevate their talent. I'm not saying he shouldn't face HHH at all; he should just fight some other guys along the way....
you can't simply invest in a test feud with guys like Rock and Brock where each appearance costs you a fortune. Rock/Cena worked because Cena used the "rock is not here" thing to fuel all his offense, and so Rock didn't use a lot of his TV days, which is the problem right now with Trips/Lesnar; WWE used a lot of TV time of Lesnar's contract and how he can't show up.

If you wanna elevate Punk to a decent Rock/Punk match. Turn him heel, put Heyman behind him and fight to destroy the WWE as the main heel in the company, soon after you can have him face any challenger that comes his way, considering it was booked correctly.
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Re: 2 Cents: How will John Cena use his MITB Contract?

Post by badnewzxl » Jul 20th, '12, 13:24

cero2k wrote:
badnewzxl wrote:
And I agree with BRM here; putting Punk in a feud with someone like the Rock or Brock Lesnar will be his test to see if he can get over on their level. Right now, WWE needs to test those grounds so they can elevate their talent. I'm not saying he shouldn't face HHH at all; he should just fight some other guys along the way....
you can't simply invest in a test feud with guys like Rock and Brock where each appearance costs you a fortune. Rock/Cena worked because Cena used the "rock is not here" thing to fuel all his offense, and so Rock didn't use a lot of his TV days, which is the problem right now with Trips/Lesnar; WWE used a lot of TV time of Lesnar's contract and how he can't show up.

If you wanna elevate Punk to a decent Rock/Punk match. Turn him heel, put Heyman behind him and fight to destroy the WWE as the main heel in the company, soon after you can have him face any challenger that comes his way, considering it was booked correctly.
I just mean the only way to tell if a talent is over at that level is to put him in the ring with a guy at that level. They could still run the Lesnar/HHH feud but that doesn't mean Brock can't get in the ring with some of the other guys on the roster too. And it doesn't have to be a test feud; it could just be a month long program where the two are gonna face one another at a ppv. Brock's smaller programs with guys like Punk or Sheamus could be a part of his build up towards mania. When you put him in ONLY mega main events that build on the mic for months, ppl get bored. Have him face off with some of the up and coming main eventers and he can stay sharp in the ring, stay relevant, and those up and comers can get the rub. Lesnar is the best to give the rub to these guys bc he's the only major star at WWE's disposal who ppl AREN'T tired of seeing or who ppl on't think is ready to hang it up.
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Re: 2 Cents: How will John Cena use his MITB Contract?

Post by cero2k » Jul 20th, '12, 13:34

badnewzxl wrote:
cero2k wrote:
badnewzxl wrote:
And I agree with BRM here; putting Punk in a feud with someone like the Rock or Brock Lesnar will be his test to see if he can get over on their level. Right now, WWE needs to test those grounds so they can elevate their talent. I'm not saying he shouldn't face HHH at all; he should just fight some other guys along the way....
you can't simply invest in a test feud with guys like Rock and Brock where each appearance costs you a fortune. Rock/Cena worked because Cena used the "rock is not here" thing to fuel all his offense, and so Rock didn't use a lot of his TV days, which is the problem right now with Trips/Lesnar; WWE used a lot of TV time of Lesnar's contract and how he can't show up.

If you wanna elevate Punk to a decent Rock/Punk match. Turn him heel, put Heyman behind him and fight to destroy the WWE as the main heel in the company, soon after you can have him face any challenger that comes his way, considering it was booked correctly.
I just mean the only way to tell if a talent is over at that level is to put him in the ring with a guy at that level. They could still run the Lesnar/HHH feud but that doesn't mean Brock can't get in the ring with some of the other guys on the roster too. And it doesn't have to be a test feud; it could just be a month long program where the two are gonna face one another at a ppv. Brock's smaller programs with guys like Punk or Sheamus could be a part of his build up towards mania. When you put him in ONLY mega main events that build on the mic for months, ppl get bored. Have him face off with some of the up and coming main eventers and he can stay sharp in the ring, stay relevant, and those up and comers can get the rub. Lesnar is the best to give the rub to these guys bc he's the only major star at WWE's disposal who ppl AREN'T tired of seeing or who ppl on't think is ready to hang it up.
ok, i agree with you here. you really need to help them stay relevant and avoid ring rust, just like Rock had the SS match last year.
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Re: 2 Cents: How will John Cena use his MITB Contract?

Post by Big Red Machine » Jul 21st, '12, 19:46

cero2k wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:
yourcrapsweak wrote: I don't think it would work that way. You can't just do one program with Rock and be a mega-star for the rest of your life, it takes years of building. Would it help him? Yeah it would, but it wouldn't automatically shoot him up there. And right now, they're not focusing on making Punk that mega-big yet, they want the biggest draw possible for 'Mania (assuming Rock is even coming back for 'Mania).

For these blockbuster matches, you also have to think that they are few and far in between. Think if Punk did this, what would he do afterward? Cena worked with Brock after 'Mania, and now is back to normal I guess you could say, but Cena is, again, on another level than Punk. What would Punk do after his program with Rock is over? Work with Cena again? If that happens, then what after that? Big Show? It doesn't help as much as you think. Several years later, saying "oh he worked with Rock" won't mean a damn thing if he spent the rest of the time doing what he did before. And they're not replacing Cena with Punk, so Punk won't be at that level while he's still there.

And yeah I know, that was my point. Back then, the title had to go on last in Vince's eyes. Now-a-days, it's opening the damn show.

He would work with Rock, then stay at the top of the card, working with the likes of Cena, Orton, Dragon, etc. (and hopefully, eventually, guys like Ziggler and Del Rio, too).
it doesn't simply work that way, there's is just soo much space in the main event scene. Look how low guys like Miz went down after main eventing against the Rock and feuding with Triple H because the top card is soo f'n clustered. it would be easily achieved if the lower titles meant anything, then you could have feuds for the IC title or the Tag titles and not lose all momentum, but it's not like that. Right now if Dragon doesn't continue feuding for a title, it's gonna be considered a de-push.
Those guys went down because WWE seems to have forgotten how to have a main event feud that doesn't revolve around the title, or involve someone feuding with an exec. Something like Steen vs. Generico, Aries vs. Jacobs, or Angle vs. Jarrett if you cut out the stupidity. The kind of feud that is heated enough that it feels like it belongs at the top of the card, so that, at the end of it, neither guy involved will feel out of place if they were to challenge for the title.
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Re: 2 Cents: How will John Cena use his MITB Contract?

Post by yourcrapsweak » Jul 22nd, '12, 10:10

Big Red Machine wrote:Those guys went down because WWE seems to have forgotten how to have a main event feud that doesn't revolve around the title, or involve someone feuding with an exec. Something like Steen vs. Generico, Aries vs. Jacobs, or Angle vs. Jarrett if you cut out the stupidity. The kind of feud that is heated enough that it feels like it belongs at the top of the card, so that, at the end of it, neither guy involved will feel out of place if they were to challenge for the title.
The lsat time they did do that, it was Cena vs. Brock, and before that Cena vs. Rock.
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Re: 2 Cents: How will John Cena use his MITB Contract?

Post by yourcrapsweak » Jul 22nd, '12, 10:21

badnewzxl wrote:I just mean the only way to tell if a talent is over at that level is to put him in the ring with a guy at that level. They could still run the Lesnar/HHH feud but that doesn't mean Brock can't get in the ring with some of the other guys on the roster too. And it doesn't have to be a test feud; it could just be a month long program where the two are gonna face one another at a ppv. Brock's smaller programs with guys like Punk or Sheamus could be a part of his build up towards mania. When you put him in ONLY mega main events that build on the mic for months, ppl get bored. Have him face off with some of the up and coming main eventers and he can stay sharp in the ring, stay relevant, and those up and comers can get the rub. Lesnar is the best to give the rub to these guys bc he's the only major star at WWE's disposal who ppl AREN'T tired of seeing or who ppl on't think is ready to hang it up.
You do realize that, for one, Brock only has limited appearances available and WWE can't afford to bring him in that often to work smaller programs that will ultimately be for nothing. WWE does not need to build Brock at all, nor do they have to worry about ring rust (that should be Brock's problem, not WWE's).

If Brock feuds with Sheamus or Punk or someone on his way to facing whoever at 'Mania (let's say Triple H just for example), then Brock would have to win all of those feuds to build him (because that is the point). How would that help Sheamus or Punk or anyone? It would be very arduous to keep putting over BOTH Brock and his opponent month after month, because the big thing to WWE when it comes to this stuff is not putting guys over (they can do that any time they want), it's simply to DRAW. Especially at WrestleMania. They want the biggest stars with the least amount of work to draw.

And you said with builds like Rock vs. Cena, people get bored. Tell me, who got bored? Bored of what? That crowd at WrestleMania sounded everything BUT bored. And tell me, did that match draw? Yes it did. Mission ACCOMPLISHED.
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Re: 2 Cents: How will John Cena use his MITB Contract?

Post by Big Red Machine » Jul 22nd, '12, 11:33

yourcrapsweak wrote:

If Brock feuds with Sheamus or Punk or someone on his way to facing whoever at 'Mania (let's say Triple H just for example), then Brock would have to win all of those feuds to build him (because that is the point). How would that help Sheamus or Punk or anyone? It would be very arduous to keep putting over BOTH Brock and his opponent month after month, because the big thing to WWE when it comes to this stuff is not putting guys over (they can do that any time they want), it's simply to DRAW. Especially at WrestleMania. They want the biggest stars with the least amount of work to draw.
I think you've got it backwards, though. You build Sheamus up so that, when Mania comes around, Brock vs. Sheamus is the draw. Building Shemaus up and having him go over Brock would replace whatever plans Brock had for Mania, not be something that happens on the way to Brock vs. Whoever at Mania.
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Re: 2 Cents: How will John Cena use his MITB Contract?

Post by badnewzxl » Jul 22nd, '12, 12:32

yourcrapsweak wrote: You do realize that, for one, Brock only has limited appearances available and WWE can't afford to bring him in that often to work smaller programs that will ultimately be for nothing. WWE does not need to build Brock at all, nor do they have to worry about ring rust (that should be Brock's problem, not WWE's).

If Brock feuds with Sheamus or Punk or someone on his way to facing whoever at 'Mania (let's say Triple H just for example), then Brock would have to win all of those feuds to build him (because that is the point). How would that help Sheamus or Punk or anyone? It would be very arduous to keep putting over BOTH Brock and his opponent month after month, because the big thing to WWE when it comes to this stuff is not putting guys over (they can do that any time they want), it's simply to DRAW. Especially at WrestleMania. They want the biggest stars with the least amount of work to draw.

And you said with builds like Rock vs. Cena, people get bored. Tell me, who got bored? Bored of what? That crowd at WrestleMania sounded everything BUT bored. And tell me, did that match draw? Yes it did. Mission ACCOMPLISHED.
Of course Brock would win a match against Punk or a match against Sheamus, but the RUB those two would get from being in the ring with him would help the both of them. There's no shame in losing to Brock Lesnar; all it can do is build you up. You may not remember this, but JOHN CENA used the rub he got to catapult him into the upper midcard and the main event. Before he challenged Brock, Cena was just a joke. His match (though he lost) proved that he could go with the top guys AND keep the crowd involved on that level.

I know he only has a limited number of appearances, but when he shows up to talk ish to HHH, have HHH put him in a match! It's still one appearance, right? If he has it in his contract that he's only going to WRESTLE a few times a year, DON'T TRY TO INVOLVE HIM IN A MAJOR STORYLINE. Being who he is, he'll draw regardless. Then, we won't get HHH coming out and wasting ten minutes of tv time telling us a bunch of stuff we already know bc they've recapped it two or three times (most times, right before he comes out. Talk about beating a dead horse!). It's redundance, and it's not needed.

And who got bored with the Rock/Cena feud? Uh, a CRAP TON of the folks on this website, for one. Don't tell me you don't remember everyone complaining about how we got the same damn promos from those two every other week. The crowd was hot bc THEY WERE IN THE ROCK'S HOME TOWN; do I seriously need to state this fact? There's no doubt that it drew, but it wasn't bc of their promos and all the time that was wasted on the mic; it drew bc IT WAS THE ROCK v. JOHN CENA! WWE didn't need to waste weeks and weeks of mic time building up the Hogan v. Rock match from WM18; it drew, had a crowd that was JUST AS HOT as the one this year, it wasn't in EITHER guys backyard, AND neither guy had been away from wrestling for long, so the novelty factor wasn't even that strong.
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Re: 2 Cents: How will John Cena use his MITB Contract?

Post by Big Red Machine » Jul 22nd, '12, 12:36

yourcrapsweak wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:Those guys went down because WWE seems to have forgotten how to have a main event feud that doesn't revolve around the title, or involve someone feuding with an exec. Something like Steen vs. Generico, Aries vs. Jacobs, or Angle vs. Jarrett if you cut out the stupidity. The kind of feud that is heated enough that it feels like it belongs at the top of the card, so that, at the end of it, neither guy involved will feel out of place if they were to challenge for the title.
The lsat time they did do that, it was Cena vs. Brock, and before that Cena vs. Rock.
But Cena was an already established star. They failed to do it for guys like Miz, Ziggler, Swagger, Sheamus (the first time), Barrett, etc.
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Re: 2 Cents: How will John Cena use his MITB Contract?

Post by badnewzxl » Jul 22nd, '12, 12:50

Big Red Machine wrote:
yourcrapsweak wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:Those guys went down because WWE seems to have forgotten how to have a main event feud that doesn't revolve around the title, or involve someone feuding with an exec. Something like Steen vs. Generico, Aries vs. Jacobs, or Angle vs. Jarrett if you cut out the stupidity. The kind of feud that is heated enough that it feels like it belongs at the top of the card, so that, at the end of it, neither guy involved will feel out of place if they were to challenge for the title.
The lsat time they did do that, it was Cena vs. Brock, and before that Cena vs. Rock.
But Cena was an already established star. They failed to do it for guys like Miz, Ziggler, Swagger, Sheamus (the first time), Barrett, etc.
EXACTLY! They rely on their already established talent to deliver major feuds, but most of those guys are part time (HHH, Taker, Brock, Rock) or Injury/suspension prone (Rey, Orton, Del Rio), and don't build up the guys to take their place. Punk/Bryan/AJ could continue; it's the hottest angle of the year so far and would still be even if the WWE title wasn't involved. They need to pair guys up and let them tear the house down bc their isn't enough mic time for everyone and not everyone can get over on the mic. If you don't let them do what they're good at, they'll never get over. And if they never get over, they'll never draw and that IS a problem for the WWE....
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Re: 2 Cents: How will John Cena use his MITB Contract?

Post by yourcrapsweak » Jul 22nd, '12, 13:26

My whole point is just that, guys. They don't want to build up stars, they want to use established mega-stars to draw the highest amount of money possible. That's all I'm saying. If it were up to me, guys like Ziggler and Barrett and Miz (well maybe not Miz) would be building up to that level, but that's not a gamble WWE is willing to take.
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