BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2016 (awesome)

[Big Red Machine]

WWE TLC 2016 (12/4/2016)- Dallas, TX

KICK-OFF SHOW:
NATTIE JOINS THE KICK-OFF PANEL (which seems to have mercifully been reduced to Renee Young and just one other putz (Booker T) instead of the usual three putzes. Nattie was meh. If they are going to go back to Nattie vs. Becky, I’m going to be really annoyed.

ALEXA BLISS IN THE SOCIAL MEDIA LOUNGE- Alexa was a lot nicer here than usual, which normally isn’t good for a heel, but I actually appreciated her reacting to a stupid question about having tapped out in her last title shot (you know, the one where her foot was on the ropes) with a logical argument like a normal person would.

APOLLO CREWS, AMERICAN ALPHA, & THE HYPE BROS. vs. THE ASCENSION, THE VAUDEVILLAINS, & CURT HAWKINS- 6.25/10
For those of you who didn’t get enough of pointless ten-person tag team matches last month, we got this match, complete with someone claiming the pointless position of “captain” of the team. Not ironically, that person is Curt Hawkins, whose entire employment is pointless.
The fans didn’t react at all to Hawkins and Ryder facing off. That made me laugh. Seriously, though… the only way Curt Hawkins presence on TV can possibly be financially justifiable for WWE is if Hawkins is paying THEM money.
Mauro Ranallo made a joke about Mojo Rawley’s penis. This actually happened. The match was your standard babyface in peril story with Gable being Ricky Morton.

Whoa! Who is this new guy on the kick-off panel and why is he so competent?

MAIN SHOW:

WWE SMACKDOWN TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: Heath Slater & Rhyno(c) vs. The Wyatt Family (Bray Wyatt & Randy Orton) (w/Luke Harper)- 4.75/10
During the Wyatts’ entrance, JBL tries to stress to us how dangerous and dominant a team Orton and Wyatt will make, and how them teaming together is a total game changer. Then Heath “I Got Kids” Slater comes out wearing one of the tag belts. Do you know what they should do to really get across how deadly serious this new alliance of Orton and Wyatt is? Have them squash Heath like a bug.
Rhyno starts for the babyfaces, which was a good idea, and Mauro did his part by noting that this was the first time that Rhyno has started a match since they started teaming. Heath winds up getting tagged in and is quickly cut off by Orton, then beaten on by the heels for a while until he made the tag to Rhyno. This set up a spot where Harper took the bullet for Orton like Orton did for Bray at Survivor Series. Then Orton hit Rhyno with an RKO and pinned him to win the tag titles. Yes, really. They pinned RHYNO instead of HEATH SLATER.

DASHA FUENTES INTERVIEWS DEAN AMBROSE- he makes fun of James Ellsworth while updating us on Ellsworth’s condition following the injury he suffered on Smackdown. Other than that Dean was good.

RENEE YOUNG INTERVIEWS AJ STYLES- great.

NO DISQUALIFICATIONS MATCH: Nikki Bella vs. Carmella- 4/10
I was shocked that Carmella didn’t jump Nikki from behind to start this match off. Instead, AFTER BOTH WOMEN HAD MADE THEIR ENTRANCE, they showed us a video of how this feud started three and a half months ago… and it hasn’t moved forward since. They’ve just repeated the angle of Carmella jumping Nikki from behind OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. While this video package was playing, these two women who hate each other so much were just standing in the ring together, not fighting.
Apparently this No Disqualifications match has count-outs. I swear to G-d if they keep this f*cking feud going by doing a count-out in a No Disqualifications match I will throw something. They did some weapons spots and stuff. It wasn’t very interesting or exciting. Nikki won via pinfall, so my remote did not break. Can this feud be over now?

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- Carmella reveals that it was Nattie who jumped Nikki at Survivor Series. JBL is incredulous, insisting that it MUST have been someone from Raw.

DASHA INTERVIEWS DANIEL BRYAN- Dasha basically asks Bryan if he is biased against The Miz. Bryan gives a diplomatic answer. Miz shows up and cuts a promo on Bryan. This would have been a GREAT segment do on the go-home show. On the PPV it’s just a waste of time.

You know those statistics that Cole usually gives about past performances at the current PPV or in the current match type or whatever? Well now Vince has Mauro giving them, too, and not even Mauro can make them sound natural. Is anyone else amazed that Vince expects us to care about these statistics when we are given them but not care about wins and losses the rest of the time?

LADDER MATCH FOR THE WWE INTERCONTINENTAL TITLE; THERE WILL BE NO REMATCHES: The Miz(c) (w/Maryse) vs. Dolph Ziggler- 8.5/10
FINALLY a feud that will actually have to END after tonight.
And now I’m sad because I remembered that this is the one feud on Smackdown that has been putting on consistently great matches. You know. Like this one. Well… to be more accurate, this one was AWESOME! Never mind the stuff they did before working the legs but just those last few minutes on the ladder were SOOOO tense and full of emotion. Miz wins, then cuts a Promo of the Year candidate on Bryan, Ziggler, and the crowd.

CHAIRS MATCH: Baron Corbin vs. Kalisto- 7.5/10
Both guys took a lot of punishment and they did a great job of making the gimmick feel like a big part of the match. This has got to be the best performance of Corbin’s career. And I’m not just saying that because they got to use gimmicks, which are usually a shortcut to making matches better. Corbin looked smooth in everything he did, and he did a fantastic job of showing emotion all throughout the match.

DASHA INTERVIEWS NATTIE- yeah, she’s totally going to attack Becky tonight. The only question is whether it happens during the match or after it. Also, she denied Carmella’s accusation that she was the one who attacked Nikki at Survivor Series by pointing out that Carmella is a liar and therefore we shouldn’t believe her about this, either.

TABLES MATCH FOR THE WWE SMACKDOWN WOMEN’S TITLE: Becky Lynch(c) vs. Alexa Bliss!- 6.75/10
Did you see how Alexa reacted to the fans booing her? That is why she needs to be the champion right now. The crowd really wasn’t into Becky as a babyface, which is probably due to how terribly she has been booked. I, on the other hand, was quite into this match, for obvious reasons.
The thing with tables matches nowadays is that we’ve seen so many tables bumps that it is hard to make them feel big. Because of this, what you have to do is slow things down and fill the match with teases to ramp up the excitement, and these two did just that. Because they had so much space to fill and also needed to avoid things feeling repetitive (a lesson I wish someone would have taught Bret and Owen before their cage match at Summer Slam), they came up with some creative ways to use the table, which also enhanced the match. That being said... that spot they did were Alexa gave Becky a DDT on the back of the table? NO ONE SHOULD EVER DO THAT AGAIN. That little metal railing on the back of the table can seriously f*ck up the back of the person giving it, and as for the head of the person taking the DDT, you might want to go ask James Storm about what that can do.
Oh. Whoops. Totally forgot to give this match its ten point bonus for Alexa winning the title. New score for this match is 16.75/10, making it the greatest match in wrestling history. Try beating that, Kobashi.
I hope they get at least this much time when they their rematch so that we can see what Alexa can really do when given significant time.

DASHA IS KIND OF A JERK AND TRIES TO INTERVIEW BECKY INSTEAD OF THE NEW CHAMPION- Becky reacts much more politely than I expected, merely telling Dasha she doesn’t want to talk right now and excusing herself.

TLC MATCH FOR THE WWE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE: AJ Styles(c) vs. Dean Ambrose- 8.5/10
This was your “basic” weapons match without too much focus on getting the belt until the end. The match was awesome, but was hurt by the overbooked finish. Is there anyone who didn’t see this coming once Ellsworth showed up? (He probably thinks that if AJ loses the title he won’t get the title shot he “earned,” which is stupid because if you win a match where the stip is that you get a title shot if you win, you shouldn’t lose your title shot just because someone else wins the belt before you get your match.)


An awesome show from WWE. Basically, if there was a weapon in the match and it didn’t involve Carmella, it was great. If there was a ladder involved, it was awesome. Also, ALEXA F*CKING BLISS FOR THE WIN!

[cero2k]

it's hard to believe, but this is the first title Bray Wyatt has held, including the Husky Harris run. first time the Family has held the tag titles and it's not even Harper or Rowan.

[cero2k]

random trivia: TLC was the 67th 4*+ match of AJ Styles' career, tying Kurt Angle's record for the most by a US born wrestler

[Big Red Machine]

random trivia: TLC was the 67th 4*+ match of AJ Styles' career, tying Kurt Angle's record for the most by a US born wrestler

Just need to point out that this statistic is biased towards major American companies. I'm sure guys like Danielson, Strong, Aries, Tanahashi, and Hero would rank higher if Dave had been watching more than WWE, TNA, CMLL, and NOAH in the 2000s. Or if Dave would watch any non-PWG indies now (he doesn't even watch ROH when it isn't a TV or PPV).

[NWK2000]

random trivia: TLC was the 67th 4*+ match of AJ Styles' career, tying Kurt Angle's record for the most by a US born wrestler

Just need to point out that this statistic is biased towards major American companies. I'm sure guys like Danielson, Strong, Aries, Tanahashi, and Hero would rank higher if Dave had been watching more than WWE, TNA, CMLL, and NOAH in the 2000s. Or if Dave would watch any non-PWG indies now (he doesn't even watch ROH when it isn't a TV or PPV).

This just made my "Why do people buy Meltzer's garbage?" list.

[Big Red Machine]

random trivia: TLC was the 67th 4*+ match of AJ Styles' career, tying Kurt Angle's record for the most by a US born wrestler

Just need to point out that this statistic is biased towards major American companies. I'm sure guys like Danielson, Strong, Aries, Tanahashi, and Hero would rank higher if Dave had been watching more than WWE, TNA, CMLL, and NOAH in the 2000s. Or if Dave would watch any non-PWG indies now (he doesn't even watch ROH when it isn't a TV or PPV).

This just made my "Why do people buy Meltzer's garbage?" list.

Exactly. People act like the guy is some sort of authority when:
1. He has very clear biases (if it comes from Japan, it's good)
2. The things he says are often hypocritical (when Tanahashi doesn't sell his leg it's "fighting spirit." When Dean Ambrose doesn't sell his leg, it's because he's a bad wrestler, or PWG matches or those Ishii no-sell sh*t-fests will get a bonus because the crowd was going crazy, but larger crowds of equally rabid fans in ECW or even CZW don't get that sort of bonus)
3. He barely watches anything that isn't mainstream anymore (and it's possible he doesn't even watch Impact at all, and ROH TV rarely).
4. He will say CRAZY things to justify ratings he wants to give matches (like that time he suggested that Ishii was botching moves on purpose to make you think he was shoot injured so that you would have more sympathy for him in the match. That is the sort of thing that only a crazy man would say.)

One of the most telling Dave moments for me was when he admitted to basically grading Savage vs. Steamboat on a curve. It still makes me laugh at how many Meltzer marks walk around claiming this is the best Mania match of all-time or some such bullsh*t without being able to point to one single, exceptional thing about the match. They just talk about "the storytelling" without giving actual details. Meanwhile, if you like storytelling, Hogan vs. Andre was much better.

[cero2k]

because he's been watching and reviewing wrestling before we were all born. He's the most credible journalist out there

It's just all opinions, you yourself have a list of how many wrestlers have 10/10 matches, some of those i've agreed with, some i haven't, and we can't all watch all wrestling ever, you rarely watch AAA/CMLL, i rarely watch a whole WWE show, I don't think neither of us have watched a SHIMMER show in a long tie; at least in my sense most of what Meltzer rates high I can go watch and will likely like it and that's why I pay attention to this ratings.

and from what I hear and read, he does watch a lot more indies, he just doesn't review them, but from his comments it sounds like he has watched EVOLVE and RPW lately. PWG he watches because he lives 40 minutes away, if ROH and EVOLVE and all those east coast promotions would come to the west coast, surely Meltzer would try to attend as much as possible.

[cero2k]

Exactly. People act like the guy is some sort of authority when:
1. He has very clear biases (if it comes from Japan, it's good)

he has said before that he judges Japan with a lot higher expectations tho, a 4.5 in Japan is not the same as 4.5 in the US. Biases is something we'll all have, you don't like Ishii's strong style, some people do. You don't like Impact, I don't like WWE. Bryan Alvarez hates intergender matches, but Meltzer and you and I loved Pentagon vs Black Lotus Tribe

[Big Red Machine]

because he's been watching and reviewing wrestling before we were all born. He's the most credible journalist out there

It's just all opinions, you yourself have a list of how many wrestlers have 10/10 matches, some of those i've agreed with, some i haven't, and we can't all watch all wrestling ever, you rarely watch AAA/CMLL, i rarely watch a whole WWE show, I don't think neither of us have watched a SHIMMER show in a long tie; at least in my sense most of what Meltzer rates high I can go watch and will likely like it and that's why I pay attention to this ratings.

I'm not disputing that it's all opinions. My issue is that people seem to forget that the fact that "Dave is the most credible journalist out there" doesn't mean that Dave 's opinions on matches = fact. Everyone talks about Dave's list of ***** matches, but I've never seen anyone do anything close to similar for Wade Keller or Alvarez/Vinny/whoever did that in F4W, etc. etc.

and from what I hear and read, he does watch a lot more indies, he just doesn't review them, but from his comments it sounds like he has watched EVOLVE and RPW lately. PWG he watches because he lives 40 minutes away, if ROH and EVOLVE and all those east coast promotions would come to the west coast, surely Meltzer would try to attend as much as possible.

Then he should be reviewing them in his damn newsletter! That's his job. If Dave has thought Timothy Thatcher was so awesome for year because he watched him on California indies then doesn't Dave owe it to Thatcher and to the wrestling business to use his position to let the world know that this Timothy Thatcher kid working the west coast indies is really great and someone should take a look at him?

[Big Red Machine]

Exactly. People act like the guy is some sort of authority when:
1. He has very clear biases (if it comes from Japan, it's good)

he has said before that he judges Japan with a lot higher expectations tho, a 4.5 in Japan is not the same as 4.5 in the US. Biases is something we'll all have, you don't like Ishii's strong style, some people do. You don't like Impact, I don't like WWE. Bryan Alvarez hates intergender matches, but Meltzer and you and I loved Pentagon vs Black Lotus Tribe

These are two different issues. I'm not disputing that everyone has biases. Where I think that Dave differs from myself and many others is Dave is much more hypocritical. I complain about Ishii not selling, yes, but my opinion on people not selling doesn't change based on the promotion. I'm just as harsh on them as I am of Ciampa in PWG. I complain about Ciampa's crotch-grab whether it happens in PWG or ROH. Go back and look at my ROH reviews in 2012 and 2013 when they were overusing the "kick out at one" spot. I'm just as harsh on them doing it as I am on Ishii and Shibata. I often get the feeling that Dave does, in fact, have extreme biases, and there is a lot of stuff I see him put over in New Japan but bury in WWE/TNA (and less frequently ROH) or reasons he gives to increase a rating for a match in PWG or New Japan that are equally applicable to ECW or CZW even TNA or ROH at times that he would never apply to those promotions.

As for having different standards for Japan... that's not cool, either. You can't tell me that if that AJ vs. Suzuki match happened in front of the same crowd but you flew them all to either New York or Mexico City or London it would have been ***** but it would only have been ****3/4 if it happened in Japan. That's bullsh*t.

[cero2k]

I'm not disputing that it's all opinions. My issue is that people seem to forget that the fact that "Dave is the most credible journalist out there" doesn't mean that Dave 's opinions on matches = fact. Everyone talks about Dave's list of ***** matches, but I've never seen anyone do anything close to similar for Wade Keller or Alvarez/Vinny/whoever did that in F4W, etc. etc.
I've heard small mention of both, but again, Meltzer was writing about wrestling when all these guys were 10 yr old kids, and surely from listening to Alvarez and Vinny every week, I definitely wouldn't take their word as much as someone else. Your reviews are a lot more credible and smart than theirs, even when talking about the things they like

Then he should be reviewing them in his damn newsletter! That's his job. If Dave has thought Timothy Thatcher was so awesome for year because he watched him on California indies then doesn't Dave owe it to Thatcher and to the wrestling business to use his position to let the world know that this Timothy Thatcher kid working the west coast indies is really great and someone should take a look at him?
i don't disagree, but then again i also first heard of him from Meltzer when he had the first Hero match, before it was just a name in the indies that i had seen in cards. This is something that WWE's overdoing content hurts us sometimes, how many shows have you not watched because RAW/Smackdown/NXT/205/PPVs takes time away from you? And you're not even covering UFC to my knowledge. I do think that with the FloSports thing, he may start to watch those shows more often, and he does review ROHtv on the shows sometimes

[Big Red Machine]

I'm not disputing that it's all opinions. My issue is that people seem to forget that the fact that "Dave is the most credible journalist out there" doesn't mean that Dave 's opinions on matches = fact. Everyone talks about Dave's list of ***** matches, but I've never seen anyone do anything close to similar for Wade Keller or Alvarez/Vinny/whoever did that in F4W, etc. etc.
I've heard small mention of both, but again, Meltzer was writing about wrestling when all these guys were 10 yr old kids, and surely from listening to Alvarez and Vinny every week, I definitely wouldn't take their word as much as someone else. Your reviews are a lot more credible and smart than theirs, even when talking about the things they like
Okay, if you want to cross Bryan and Vinny off the list, then why does Dave's view seem to hold more weight than Wade's? Or Mike Johnson's? Or whoever else's? My point is that because Dave is wrestling's most authoritative journalist, his list seems to be taken as more than opinion, and it bugs the hell out of me because of how hypocritical he is/how many double standards he uses.

Then he should be reviewing them in his damn newsletter! That's his job. If Dave has thought Timothy Thatcher was so awesome for year because he watched him on California indies then doesn't Dave owe it to Thatcher and to the wrestling business to use his position to let the world know that this Timothy Thatcher kid working the west coast indies is really great and someone should take a look at him?
i don't disagree, but then again i also first heard of him from Meltzer when he had the first Hero match, before it was just a name in the indies that i had seen in cards. This is something that WWE's overdoing content hurts us sometimes, how many shows have you not watched because RAW/Smackdown/NXT/205/PPVs takes time away from you? And you're not even covering UFC to my knowledge. I do think that with the FloSports thing, he may start to watch those shows more often, and he does review ROHtv on the shows sometimes
Obviously Dave's time is limited, but I think he should publish a review of a show he recently watched even if it isn't current. If it took him six months to get around to watching this year's WWN Supershow or whatever then he should put his review in his newsletter. I also think that Dave's time could be better prioritized (maybe skip some of the pointless New Japan Road To... shows in favor of more ROH/Evolve, other indies, or more NOAH/All Japan etc. I'm no fan of Dragon Gate, but if Dave is going to talk it up so much he should probably review more than just their WrestleMania.

[cero2k]

Okay, if you want to cross Bryan and Vinny off the list, then why does Dave's view seem to hold more weight than Wade's? Or Mike Johnson's? Or whoever else's? My point is that because Dave is wrestling's most authoritative journalist, his list seems to be taken as more than opinion, and it bugs the hell out of me because of how hypocritical he is/how many double standards he uses.
same thing, Dave has been doing this longer than Wade, Mike, and everyone else, I mean, he pretty made made the whole star rating a thing when it comes to wrestling, and he does work for the most famous wrestling publication, Wrestling Observer is faaar superior and famous than PWTorch. It's the same reason why people hold more importance to Wade's reviews than yours, even though you review double the shows he does. Maybe you and i should work on promoting the reviews more

Obviously Dave's time is limited, but I think he should publish a review of a show he recently watched even if it isn't current. If it took him six months to get around to watching this year's WWN Supershow or whatever then he should put his review in his newsletter. I also think that Dave's time could be better prioritized (maybe skip some of the pointless New Japan Road To... shows in favor of more ROH/Evolve, other indies, or more NOAH/All Japan etc. I'm no fan of Dragon Gate, but if Dave is going to talk it up so much he should probably review more than just their WrestleMania.
I don't disagree with this, i don't need Meltzer reviewing 205, NXT or even Lucha which he sometimes doesn't even get, just like I think it's a waste of time that Alvarez reviews NWA and the Monday Night Wars, it was fun when Lance would give his opinions, but that's it, that's time that could be Indie tuesdays

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[Big Red Machine]

Okay, if you want to cross Bryan and Vinny off the list, then why does Dave's view seem to hold more weight than Wade's? Or Mike Johnson's? Or whoever else's? My point is that because Dave is wrestling's most authoritative journalist, his list seems to be taken as more than opinion, and it bugs the hell out of me because of how hypocritical he is/how many double standards he uses.
same thing, Dave has been doing this longer than Wade, Mike, and everyone else, I mean, he pretty made made the whole star rating a thing when it comes to wrestling, and he does work for the most famous wrestling publication, Wrestling Observer is faaar superior and famous than PWTorch. It's the same reason why people hold more importance to Wade's reviews than yours, even though you review double the shows he does. Maybe you and i should work on promoting the reviews more
Which stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of the importance of reviews. My reviews are most valuable to (and should have the most importance placed on them by) people who have been able to gauge based on my reviews combined with their own thoughts on the shows I have reviewed, where my reviews fall in relation to theirs. If I regularly rate things * lower than you, then based on my review, you have a good idea of much you will enjoy a match. Dave- due to his hypocrisy- is so all over the place that his ratings are often impossible to use for their intended purpose. The most valuable reviews are the ones where the reviewer is most consistent across all of his/her reviews. If Wade is more consistent than Dave, then Wade's reviews should get more attention than Dave's. How many matches someone has/hasn't seen overall is irrelevant.

Obviously Dave's time is limited, but I think he should publish a review of a show he recently watched even if it isn't current. If it took him six months to get around to watching this year's WWN Supershow or whatever then he should put his review in his newsletter. I also think that Dave's time could be better prioritized (maybe skip some of the pointless New Japan Road To... shows in favor of more ROH/Evolve, other indies, or more NOAH/All Japan etc. I'm no fan of Dragon Gate, but if Dave is going to talk it up so much he should probably review more than just their WrestleMania.
I don't disagree with this, i don't need Meltzer reviewing 205, NXT or even Lucha which he sometimes doesn't even get, just like I think it's a waste of time that Alvarez reviews NWA and the Monday Night Wars, it was fun when Lance would give his opinions, but that's it, that's time that could be Indie tuesdays
I find the retro reviews kind of fun. Less so the NWA ones, but that's mostly because I've never really watched a lot of that stuff. I'd love to see Vinny watching Evolve or something like that.
Totally agree with you on Dave and LU, by the way.

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